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Do I have a bad anti-wrap bar design, with pics?

camok5

camok5

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I have been running this M.O.O. anti wrap bar for about 2 years now and have had nothing but bad luck with it. I want to know if there is something wrong with the design that is causing the the 2 bolts that attach it to the 14 bolt truss to keep snapping? I have used grade 5 and grade 8 bolts but they always snap. I currently ended up welding the bars on there because the bolt holes dont line up any more (from the bar being bent). I have redesigned this thing a few times but it always ends up breaking and now even the welds are breaking. Does it have anything to do with it not using a shackle on the front end only a slide mount or would it help if I got rid of the hard mounts with the bolts and used bushing style mounts where the 2 bolts are at that keep breaking?









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My AZ-Kickin bar also snapped one of the mount pin's...

I'd say a pair of bushings would help somewhat, but the nature of the design lends itself to eating those mount points like candy. A lot has to do with axle steer when the diff is twisted up. I had posted up a similar complaint last summer and got some really good tech out of the responses. I'll see if I can dig up the link to that thread as it's relevant and I can't remember all of it. :doah:

Rene
 
im planning on building some for my truck except i was going to use like shock tab kinda things on the tubes and tie it into the frame adn have like big narrow triangles...is that a bad way to do it?

sorry for the hijack
 
Wow thats alot to take in! So now I'm really lost because I dont know if I should just add bushings or try and come up with something else? Because mine is a slide mount and not a shackle mount is this going to be worse? Also I'm running Deaver Springs and that didnt help at all before I put the anti wrap bar on. My main concern is that I dont have alot of room to run a shackle mount and the over the driveshaft style worked well with my lack of space. Is there anything I can do to my existing setup to lessen the stress (like changing my axle mount points or going with a johnny joint)?
 
My eyes still get all crossed and stuff reading the other thread... :doah:

Rene
 
I read through it a couple of times and still couldnt find my answer. It kinda gave the problems but no real solution. Plus my setup is a little different from what was discussed. I can grasp what is going wrong with my setup but I cant really figure out a good fix. Besides dont you have your own problems to fix NOAH:D.
 
Excuse me for being an idiot , I just think sometimes and it isn't always good .

Would it be feasible to have some slotted bolt holes , with the bolts having bushings on them , and locking nuts with the plastic inserts . Tighten it up enough to work the anti-wrap , but loose enough the bolts can work through the slotted holes when the axle steers a bit when you flex .

Hope someone sees my mental image and thinks I am not an idiot .
 
Basically johnny joints at the diff if I understand where your thinking is...

Might work.

Rene
 
pauly383 said:
Excuse me for being an idiot , I just think sometimes and it isn't always good .

Would it be feasible to have some slotted bolt holes , with the bolts having bushings on them , and locking nuts with the plastic inserts . Tighten it up enough to work the anti-wrap , but loose enough the bolts can work through the slotted holes when the axle steers a bit when you flex .

Hope someone sees my mental image and thinks I am not an idiot .
Click to expand...

Not a good idea, IMO
 
Are johhny joints solid mounted or do they allow for any stress like a bushing style mount because with my design not having a shackle on it, there will still be alot of stress at the axle mount points. As my axle moves up and down the front mount is fixed which will cause the pinion angle to change some what and cause the most stress at the axle mounts as they are fighting the springs range of motion.
 
camok5 said:
Are johhny joints solid mounted or do they allow for any stress like a bushing style mount because with my design not having a shackle on it, there will still be alot of stress at the axle mount points. As my axle moves up and down the front mount is fixed which will cause the pinion angle to change some what and cause the most stress at the axle mounts as they are fighting the springs range of motion.
Click to expand...

Seems to me there is some poly in a johnny joint. Not enough to make much of a differnce though. Small cups on each side is all.

If your looking for bolt cushion, a poly will suit you best. It will also allow for twisting action from the axle steer.

In the end, I would say most of you problem is coming from the relatively hard mount at the top, lack of shackle.
 
I think I'm going to just weld in some poly bushing mounts for now because I dont have room for a shackle. I know I will have to redesign the whole thing later and I will just have to hope this will hold up for awhile.
 
Here are a couple of thoughts, maybe some of the other guys with more experience can chime in and valdate them. I suspect your the victim of several different issues comign together at once. Since we can't fit a shackle in there, the best thing to do is eliminate the bind I circled. As the axle housing travels up, that spot is like a cantelever and keeps snapping the rear bolt (now that I have said that, which bolt snapped?) Let's hack up that plate and make two independant mounts that are just mounted ot the plate with poly bushings. We might also move that brace a little depending on how things turn out...

pismo062rz5.jpg
 
If you make it a single link with the only attachment points being the one at the frame and one (ONLY!) on the axle your problems will mostly go away.

The key is that the length of that single link be pretty close to the radius of the arc that that the axle hsg travels in, AND that the frame mount be in the same relative position to the travel arc's center as the hsg mount's position is to the center of the hsg.
 
I'm afraid you lost me a little on the single link idea? Do you have a diagram of how it might look and work? How does it work for anti-wrap if its not triangulated?
 
seams to me an antiwrap bar (to prevent wheel hop???) would need to pivot at the same plane as the front of the springs, be the same lenth as the sprong from centerbolt to front spring eye, and would need to attach slightly higher than the spring perches on the axle. basicaly paralelle to the spring movement. with that said i would asume if you conect an imaginary line from the front spring eye bolts somewhere along that line is where you would make a pivot for your anti-wrap bar idealy it would be directly above the center of the axle but due to differntial and driveline clearance issues slightly to one side or the other would work. now if its a pavment pounder that would suffice but in off road the axle articulates witch would twist the bar. so a jonny joint witch has the ability to twist and pivot would be ideal and with the suspention travel needed off road you would need to use a jonny joint at both ends to lessen the bind caused by multiple movements at the same time.

perhaps im blowing smoke out my a** and dont know what im talking about. You would think taller would be better but i dont think it would be much of a differnce. the top of the axle would be stablized either way and building for and aft movment kinda defeats the purpose.

this is just the way i can see it im sure im wrong so pick it apart so i better understand

balzer
 
Don't forget, leaf springs change length and the axle location changes as it cycles through travel and articulation cycles.
 
camok5 said:
I'm afraid you lost me a little on the single link idea? Do you have a diagram of how it might look and work? How does it work for anti-wrap if its not triangulated?
Click to expand...


I think what he's saying is forget about the connections on the pumpkin side that you have now......imagine a 7 or maybe 8" vertical tower-structure that is rigidly mounted to the pumpkin with a single heim joint at the end of it.

You don't really need two heims on the pumpkin side.... if you look at some other (better) anti-wrap bar designs I think you'll see what I mean.


:usaflag:
 
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