Drag Link Clearance

[joshuak]

Swapped engines in a K30, new setup had me move the engine cross member forward a couple inches.

Is 1/2" enough air space between cross member and drag link?

 

[Bent77]

The generic answer is always cycle the suspension and see. Unfortunately that’s really the only way to be sure

 

[joshuak]

Ok, noob question alert.

To cycle suspension I raise front driver wheel until passenger front is off ground as well? Then repeat with passenger front, driver rear, passenger rear?


And while we're at it, I'm working with a hacked up (clearanced by me) CFM cross member. As long as I'm cutting it up, do you suppose I could make it narrower and get away with it? Cant make it any shallower, because it runs into the oil pan.





And the setup before butchery…

 

[Bent77]

1. Pretty much, do it safely

2. In terms of modifying that, not sure. Been awhile since I had one to look at. So be patient and measure twice

 

[HankScorpio]

Lifting a wheel like you described will get you close but its not actually full travel. You need to add for the weight of the engine at least. A dynamic load like dropping down off a rock can compress the suspension beyond just jacking up a wheel. A bump stop can control things if you end up with interference later.

I would think you could narrow up the crossmember a bit without any major issues if you wanted to.

 

[joshuak]

1. Pretty much, do it safely

Got it, I'll make sure she's off cribbing and on rubber before I start lifting. Because that would suck...

2. In terms of modifying that, not sure. Been awhile since I had one to look at. So be patient and measure twice

Need to work on that, my deal is cut twice and still not long enough.

Lifting a wheel like you described will get you close but its not actually full travel. You need to add for the weight of the engine at least. A dynamic load like dropping down off a rock can compress the suspension beyond just jacking up a wheel. A bump stop can control things if you end up with interference later.

I would think you could narrow up the crossmember a bit without any major issues if you wanted to.

I see what you mean about dynamic loads. The motor will be in while I'm lifting wheels. If cycling suspension shows that there is no interference, I will go ahead and limit my travel to that point and not wait for it to self clearance.



Thanks guys.

 

[Joel Wilson]

Ok, noob question alert.

To cycle suspension I raise front driver wheel until passenger front is off ground as well? Then repeat with passenger front, driver rear, passenger rear?


And while we're at it, I'm working with a hacked up (clearanced by me) CFM cross member. As long as I'm cutting it up, do you suppose I could make it narrower and get away with it? Cant make it any shallower, because it runs into the oil pan.

View attachment 402972
View attachment 402971


And the setup before butchery…

View attachment 402973

Do you know anyone with a forklift? With the engine in the vehicle, put one tire on the fork and then have your buddy slowly lift the front end until the opposite tire is just barely touching. A loader or backhoe would work but the forklift will give you a bit more reach away from your vehicle in case there is a problem. Cycle the tire full left, full right on each side at full flex should give you an idea. You might be able to bribe the person at your local lumber yard too.

Joel
norcal

 

[joshuak]

Do you know anyone with a forklift? With the engine in the vehicle, put one tire on the fork and then have your buddy slowly lift the front end until the opposite tire is just barely touching. A loader or backhoe would work but the forklift will give you a bit more reach away from your vehicle in case there is a problem. Cycle the tire full left, full right on each side at full flex should give you an idea. You might be able to bribe the person at your local lumber yard too.

Joel
norcal

Joel, great suggestions and thanks for adding the part of cycling tires back and forth, probably wouldn't have done it.

I do know someone with a forklift, the small loader at work may be able to handle it. Unfortunately, the project in question is sunk on the shores of lake Chevrolet and has been there for a couple years (green one). Can't even get a garden tractor in there lol. Alas, I have to resort to laying plywood down and rolling my engine hoist around. Whatever, could be worse. My goal is to have it move under it's own power before spring gets here, about a month away.

 

[Blue85]

I'm working with a hacked up (clearanced by me) CFM cross member.

Are those your booger welds on the crossmember? I'm not saying it's not going to hold, but I have seem some stuff welded by noobs that fell completely apart. It's less work to get some help with fab now while it's apart, than to fix it later.

 

[joshuak]

Are those your booger welds on the crossmember? I'm not saying it's not going to hold, but I have seem some stuff welded by noobs that fell completely apart..

Yes, my boogers attempting to glue the DOM to the flat stock. 2 layers of boogers actually, my attempt at a root pass (3/32 6011) and a cover pass (1/8 7018 stored in high humidty). Want to say 80 and 110 amp respectively dcep.

I have access to a 240v buzz box at work and I'm trying to learn mostly through weldingtipsandtricks on YT. Yes, welding course at community college would be ideal but last couple of years have been strange.

...It's less work to get some help with fab now while it's apart, than to fix it later.

That's the purpose of the thread! Lot of talent on this site and willingness to help.

Speaking of which, adding the DOM as extra support didn't work because it took up valuable oil pan clearance room. Bent77 nailed it, that whole measure twice thing. So, out came the grinder and cutoff wheel and made way for the next version. Replaced DOM with flat stock which doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy either, plus looks like I have to narrow it too.



Suggestions for material thickness if I were to remove the marked section?

 

[Joel Wilson]

Removing that much metal gives me that cold clammy feeling. You can go thicker metal, but the weak spot is still going to be the welds holding it all together. Some sort of gusset between the side pieces and the bottom plate, either on the inside like what you had before or on the outside. I would feel a lot better having some extra metal tying the 2 pieces together. Just don't know what you have for clearance and I also over build the crap out of things. My stuff doesn't break, but it ends up being heavy. Maybe another piece of flat stock or even round stock on the very bottom tying the 2 together? Sacrifice a little ground clearance but it would be stronger at least.

 

[joshuak]

Removing that much metal gives me that cold clammy feeling. You can go thicker metal, but the weak spot is still going to be the welds holding it all together. Some sort of gusset between the side pieces and the bottom plate, either on the inside like what you had before or on the outside. I would feel a lot better having some extra metal tying the 2 pieces together...

Ok, I see what you mean. Nothing stopping it from folding. Couple gussets per side tied into new bottom section? About new bottom section do you suppose another section of 1/4" plate would be enough or break out some square/rectangular tube?

... Just don't know what you have for clearance and I also over build the crap out of things. My stuff doesn't break, but it ends up being heavy.

I don't mind heavy. Don't want chit breaking, hoping to go somewhere in it eventually.

In regards to clearance, I can't go up because of oil pan interference. Still pending suspension cycling, but once the drag link is cleared I think I have room to spare above the diff (3-4") wiggle room.

 

[HankScorpio]

Free stick welder is good but an inexpensive flux core 120v MIG is the way to go. I used a Lincoln ProMig 120v for about 10 years welding all sorts of stuff. My welds actually looked decent. Upgraded to a Hobart 220v on gas and it now looks like I can actually weld. It will really help with your project to go to MIG of some sort. There are some highly rated inexpensive welders out there. Vulcan from HF or some of the amazon offerings.

On the other hand, stick weld some more metal on that thing, boogers and all, it will be fine.

 

[joshuak]

Free stick welder is good but an inexpensive flux core 120v MIG is the way to go. I used a Lincoln ProMig 120v for about 10 years welding all sorts of stuff. My welds actually looked decent. Upgraded to a Hobart 220v on gas and it now looks like I can actually weld. It will really help with your project to go to MIG of some sort. There are some highly rated inexpensive welders out there. Vulcan from HF or some of the amazon offerings.

...

I hear you on MIG being the ticket. I actually picked up a Hobart 220 at the end of last year and I'm hoping to get dedicated 110 and 220v outlets setup at home in the near future. I tried using the existing outdoor 110 outlet and it immediately popped the breaker. So, more than free, stick is available and ready to go.

...On the other hand, stick weld some more metal on that thing, boogers and all, it will be fine.

Thank you, I guess...

 

[Blue85]

So when you started the crossmember had bracing along the bottom. Now you are looking to add bracing back on the bottom. Why did you cut it off to begin with? Or did someone else do that?

 

[joshuak]

So when you started the crossmember had bracing along the bottom. Now you are looking to add bracing back on the bottom. Why did you cut it off to begin with? Or did someone else do that?

Long story short, multiple iterations of frame side motor mounts. Non GM motor going in, my first rodeo.

Started off 2.5 yrs ago with a stock CFM replacement crossmember, link. I cut off the bottom ribs because version.1 of my frame side motor mounts had the crossmember close to the drag link but plenty of oil pan clearance, then V.2 had little to no oil pan clearance and here I am asking for guidance on V.whatever.


So, booger welds and questionable cutting decisions aside. Any help with the questions bellow? Or is this just a case of GTFO, learn to weld noob. Which is fine too, whatever.

...
Suggestions for material thickness if I were to remove the marked section?
...

...Couple gussets per side tied into new bottom section? About new bottom section do you suppose another section of 1/4" plate would be enough or break out some square/rectangular tube?


View attachment 403217

...

 

[Joel Wilson]

Check to see what else is on that circuit that you tripped, might be something small that is putting you over the limit. If you were closer, I would wire an outlet in for you, especially if you have Rum...Its a Navy thing. Hell, I could walk you thru it over the phone.
1/4" plate with some sort of gussets should work. I would like 3/8". Factory crossmember is fairly thin but it's formed with extra support, those rolled edges and whatnot so you gotta compensate for that. My welds or soldering have never been pretty but I get heat all the way through...that's what's important.

 

[joshuak]

Check to see what else is on that circuit that you tripped, might be something small that is putting you over the limit. If you were closer, I would wire an outlet in for you, especially if you have Rum...Its a Navy thing...

If we could make that happen, I would make sure to put as much food and alcohol as I could in you in a non romantic manner. and probably send you home with some monies for your time. No free electron in this world.

And maybe we could explore the over the phone option, someone on the internet must deliver liquor.

Thank you for your service.

1/4" plate with some sort of gussets should work. I would like 3/8". Factory crossmember is fairly thin but it's formed with extra support, those rolled edges and whatnot so you gotta compensate for that. My welds or soldering have never been pretty but I get heat all the way through...that's what's important.

I gotcha, either thickness or form huh?

Well, "on call" this weekend. So came in early to work and brought my welder, got this far and then ran out of the courtesy roll of 0.30 FC wire. Narrowed it, then added some 0.25" to the bottom of the flat plate, now in the process of boxing it in with more plate.






And dude, thanks for bearing with me here. To me that’s what forums are about.

 

[joshuak]

Are those your booger welds on the crossmember? I'm not saying it's not going to hold, but I have seem some stuff welded by noobs that fell completely apart. It's less work to get some help with fab now while it's apart, than to fix it later.

Removed the paint before adding new metal.

I’ll ask again, anything you would recommend to do differently settings, technique whatever? Or just posting to point out what’s wrong?

 

[Fastereddie]

Removed the paint before adding new metal.

I’ll ask again, anything you would recommend to do differently settings, technique whatever? Or just posting to point out what’s wrong?

View attachment 403298

View attachment 403297



View attachment 403299
View attachment 403300

I’ve seen way worse than that. It looks to me maybe your speed is a little fast. I would clean those real good with a wire wheel and do a second pass. Take your time and watch what your puddle is doing, not the arc itself.