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Duramax Swap-tranny/tcase questions

Which one would you do?

  • 6.6 Turbo Diesel Duramax

    Votes: 15 44.1%

  • Cummins

    Votes: 9 26.5%

  • Other??????

    Votes: 3 8.8%

  • Run around nekkid with diesel fuel all over your body.

    Votes: 7 20.6%
  • Total voters
    34
thebird00 said:
This is off the website. Not sure want "similar" means.


Myth:
Biodiesel does not perform as well as diesel.
Fact: ​

One of the major advantages of biodiesel is the fact that it can be used in
existing engines and fuel injection equipment with little impact to operating
performance. Biodiesel has a higher cetane number than U.S. diesel fuel. In more than
50 million miles of in-field demonstrations, B20 showed similar fuel consumption,
horsepower, torque, and haulage rates as conventional diesel fuel. Biodiesel also has
superior lubricity and it has the highest BTU content of any alternative fuel (falling in the​
range between #1 and #2 diesel fuel).

​
Click to expand...

interesting discussion.. the biodiesel.org folks aren't exactly lying here, but they aren't giving the whole picture here either.

biodiesel claims a higher cetane than petro diesel - however, the number usually cited ( 47 or higher, as compared to 42 / 44 for #2 diesel) is for B100.. biodiesel blends render the current cetane testing methods unusable, prompting the engine manufacturers association to call for new testing methods..

for the most part, a mathematical model called the cetane index is used, using the fuels distillation curve and some equations to approximate the cetane number. bottom line, it's like research and motor octane numbers - the truth is somewhere in the middle, and it depends on the qualities of the base fuel you start with.

As for energy content, let's look at the BTU numbers for various fuels first, which I found on the biodiesel.org website so you know I'm not making this up..

#2 diesel: 129,500 BTU per gallon - B100: 118,296 BTU per gallon.

The petro industry says that #1 diesel has 95% of the energy of #2..since #1 and ULSD are the same, the BTU of that would be 123,025 BTU per gallon using these numbers.

B20 has a BTU per gallon rating of 127, 259. B2 has a BTU rating of 129,276.

So, the biodiesel.org folks are only somewhat correct in saying biodiesel's BTU is BETWEEN that of #1 and #2, if all you are looking at are the stated blend numbers and not B100, but you are still looking at an energy loss in comparison, no matter how they word things..

additionally these stated BTU blend numbers have been around a long time..in other words, they were done before the fuel change with #2 diesel, not #1.. now, since everyone has to run ULSD with a lower energy content than #2 to begin with, what happens to the BTU of the ULSD / Biodiesel blend? physics dictates the thermal energy would go down, and the numbers would be lower still... conveniently, nobody publishes those numbers..

no matter which way you slice it, it comes up peanuts. using biodiesel means you consume more fuel to do the same amount of work.

boring discussion I know, but I thought it pertinent..
 
I was buying the B99 at Western States Petroleum, the only Biodiesel retailer in Phoenix. They only sell 100% virgin Agri Soy blend. Also, at the time I started running it, my Dmax only had about 15k on the clock. I didn't tempt putting it in my '84 300SD with 255k!

I just check their price, and it is .16 cents cheaper per gallon than what I paid last night for Shell diesel.

The only difference that I noticed when I was using the B99, was a different exhaust odor and a *slightly* lower engine noise. I hand calculate my MPG and did not see a variance, however 90% of the travel was city driving too.

I do like the source of the product. I'd rather support a US farmer than OPEC. I just wish it was more readily available.
 
Oilbrnr said:
I was buying the B99 at Western States Petroleum, the only Biodiesel retailer in Phoenix. They only sell 100% virgin Agri Soy blend. Also, at the time I started running it, my Dmax only had about 15k on the clock. I didn't tempt putting it in my '84 300SD with 255k!

I just check their price, and it is .16 cents cheaper per gallon than what I paid last night for Shell diesel.

The only difference that I noticed when I was using the B99, was a different exhaust odor and a *slightly* lower engine noise. I hand calculate my MPG and did not see a variance, however 90% of the travel was city driving too.

I do like the source of the product. I'd rather support a US farmer than OPEC. I just wish it was more readily available.
Click to expand...

So I gotta ask... what exactly does biodiesel exhaust smell like?
 
4by4bygod said:
interesting discussion.. the biodiesel.org folks aren't exactly lying here, but they aren't giving the whole picture here either.

biodiesel claims a higher cetane than petro diesel - however, the number usually cited ( 47 or higher, as compared to 42 / 44 for #2 diesel) is for B100.. biodiesel blends render the current cetane testing methods unusable, prompting the engine manufacturers association to call for new testing methods..

for the most part, a mathematical model called the cetane index is used, using the fuels distillation curve and some equations to approximate the cetane number. bottom line, it's like research and motor octane numbers - the truth is somewhere in the middle, and it depends on the qualities of the base fuel you start with.

As for energy content, let's look at the BTU numbers for various fuels first, which I found on the biodiesel.org website so you know I'm not making this up..

#2 diesel: 129,500 BTU per gallon - B100: 118,296 BTU per gallon.

The petro industry says that #1 diesel has 95% of the energy of #2..since #1 and ULSD are the same, the BTU of that would be 123,025 BTU per gallon using these numbers.

B20 has a BTU per gallon rating of 127, 259. B2 has a BTU rating of 129,276.

So, the biodiesel.org folks are only somewhat correct in saying biodiesel's BTU is BETWEEN that of #1 and #2, if all you are looking at are the stated blend numbers and not B100, but you are still looking at an energy loss in comparison, no matter how they word things..

additionally these stated BTU blend numbers have been around a long time..in other words, they were done before the fuel change with #2 diesel, not #1.. now, since everyone has to run ULSD with a lower energy content than #2 to begin with, what happens to the BTU of the ULSD / Biodiesel blend? physics dictates the thermal energy would go down, and the numbers would be lower still... conveniently, nobody publishes those numbers..

no matter which way you slice it, it comes up peanuts. using biodiesel means you consume more fuel to do the same amount of work.

boring discussion I know, but I thought it pertinent..
Click to expand...

It seems from remarks I have seen in your posts that you don't like biodiesel. I'm just curious as to why?

One alternative is thermal depolymerization. The end product is regular hydrocarbon diesel fuel. Energy conversion percentages appear to compare favorably with biodiesel made with methanol (methanol is made from natural gas), and since it is the same as petroleum-derived diesel there are no drawbacks like high waxing temps, solvency issues, bacterial growth issues, etc. Plus, pretty much any carbon-based feedstock can be used. Seems like the best setup to me... :dunno:
 
My boss was making his own bio for his powerstroke and it smelled like nasty french fries. But he said it was costing him about $.60 a gallon to make and he didnt really notice any power loss. I think I could handle any power loss if I was paying $.60 a gallon!
 
MaxPF said:
It seems from remarks I have seen in your posts that you don't like biodiesel. I'm just curious as to why?
Click to expand...

well, I like technologies that don't have drawbacks that are such they need double talk and massive federal subsidies to exist in the marketplace..

I mean, look at my post regarding the btu of fuels in this thread.. read the biodiesel industry supplied info, then look at what I posted.. which of us seems more full of crap? the biodiesel industry is full of that nonsense, and when you push them about a particular issue, all they can say is " well, we have to do something, even if it's imperfect".. I think the fleet owners deserve real answers, and I give those to them.

I'll check out your link, definitely.. actually, I'd like us as a country to get serious about making fuel from coal..
 
4by4bygod said:
well, I like technologies that don't have drawbacks that are such they need double talk and massive federal subsidies to exist in the marketplace..

I mean, look at my post regarding the btu of fuels in this thread.. read the biodiesel industry supplied info, then look at what I posted.. which of us seems more full of crap? the biodiesel industry is full of that nonsense, and when you push them about a particular issue, all they can say is " well, we have to do something, even if it's imperfect".. I think the fleet owners deserve real answers, and I give those to them.

I'll check out your link, definitely.. actually, I'd like us as a country to get serious about making fuel from coal..
Click to expand...

I agree. I think you will find TP to be very interesting. Unlike biodiesel, which only uses the oil extracted from the seeds, TP can convert the entire biomass of the plant into honest-to-goodness petrodiesel.
 
Ok well Cowboy 80 started a new thread about bio so lets get back on topic with swap info/questions.

NV4500 or 4l80e? And what tcase? 205?
 
lak2004 said:
Ok well Cowboy 80 started a new thread about bio so lets get back on topic with swap info/questions.

NV4500 or 4l80e? And what tcase? 205?
Click to expand...

4L80E? Umm, how about the Allison. The 205 would be fine. So would an Atlas :D
 
MaxPF said:
4L80E? Umm, how about the Allison. The 205 would be fine. So would an Atlas :D
Click to expand...

Hmmm i guess i honestly dont know much about either? I have been slacking on some of the finer aspects of trucks ie tcase and tranny.
 
The Allison 1000 is the automatic used behind the DMax in GM pickups. A 4L80E won't last long behind a 600+ lb-ft engine. As for the manuals, I think the NV4500 is probably a bit light. The NV5600 or other similarly rated manual would be better.
 
Cool, what kind of tcases are behind the alison and NV4500 and NV5600? Are there pass. side drop?
 
The van version of the duramax has a 4l80, but it doesn't have the power the big brother has.
 
lak2004 said:
Ok so what is the recommended tcase?
Click to expand...

Well, the NVG263 electronically-shifted driver-drop case is the standard unit on 4WD DMax trucks. For a swap into an older ride I would suggest adapting up one of the popular manual cases. Like I said, an NP205, LoMax 205, Atlas, Stak, etc. The NP241 would probably hold up fine as long as you don't thrash on it. If I was swapping in a DMax I would spring for one of the gear-drive cases...
 
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