**EDIT** Project: Nissan Diesel Swap... Scrapped

[joez]

I am not puting a 6.2 in my truck because it weighs too much and doesn't have the output or individuality I'm looking for... if I wanted a 6.2, I would have bought a diesel Blazer to start with... The availability of parts is a non-issue, as the UD trucks are not only used in America, they are built here. Yeah, the diesels themselves are made overseas, but there are readily available parts all over the country. As for it being a light duty diesel, I think not... Our K5s are running what, 5600-6000lbs stock?? A P30 bread van weighs about the same, and they had a Cummins 4BT.... 105hp and 265hp turbo charged... the nissan UD Trucks are not only still being produced, but the lightest one tops the charts at 6280lbs empty, with a 12,000lb GVW. It produces a slightly higher 118hp and 280ft lbs of torque, weighs 200 lbs less than the Cummins, and will fit in a Blazer without any serious modifications... yeah, I'll have to modify the hell out of my 465 to make it fit the motor, but the 465 isn't a straight up bolt on for a Cummins either.

465's came behind 4bt's in breadvans. The adapter plate is a factory piece and does just bolt right up. The P-30's came in higher than 12K GVWR as well. Some a lot higher, but not all have 4bt's as they were never factory options. They are repowers. People who have swapped 4bt's have recorded as high as 32mpg with these motors, and they have the potential for at least 500 horsepower. They are a 6bt with 2 cyl lopped off, and are a hell of a lot stouter than that nissan diesel. The nissan motor is a good motor, but it is not a true medium duty motor. 4bt's share just about all internal components with 6bt's, and as its already been said come from the factory rated as high as 250hp/500 ft.lbs of torque. Many performance parts for the 6bt work on the 4bt as well. Oh, and stock K-5's dont weigh 6000 pounds.

6.2's are light for a diesel, and weigh in a little less than a dressed 4bt. Not as heavy as you seem to think. Power output is ~140/260 with no turbo, and many people, myself included, have gotten 25mpg out of them. Add a turbo and you are looking at ~180-200 hp and arround 400 ft/lbs of torque, more if you want to do more work to it. And this is a factory swap, nothing fancy about it. I dont understand this though, "doesnt have the output i want". It has more horsepower and just a little less torque than the nissan motor, and thats an emissions motor with no turbo. J-codes will be higher, both stock and turbo'd.

Parts availability will be a problem for the nissan motor, whether you want to admit it or not. Every parts store carry's parts for cummins powered dodges and GM 6.2's, you cant just walk into an autozone and order parts for your nissan motor.

You asked for opinions, but got agitated when people tell you its not worth it. I'm with RJ, it sounds like you alreay have your mind made up that you are going to swap in some little nissan 4cyl. I dont think its worth it personally, but hey, its your truck.

EDIT: Another thing, how do you figure you are going to be getting 30mpg when you arent even going to have an overdrive?

 

[Pookster]

if you want to do it.. do it! I dont see a reason not to.

The jap in american is like, "a dodge in a chevy"- really no difference. Whatever floats his boat. Nissan makes some great petrol engines, great durability, great design. If it can be had for cheap, and he wants to go diesel...

I personally wouldnt try it though- its a lot of fab work. Sure it is certainly different from "Everyon else" out there, but certainly, there are better ways of being different. Its just that the nissan petrol doesnt really solve any already existing solutions. the Power to weight ratio isnt vastly different from a stock 6.2- even if you turbo it, it woulnt be vastly different than a turbo'ed 6.2 or 6.5.

I can even see the 4BT argument- more power than the 6.2/6.5, though I couldnt see doing all the work for a 4bt. THe 6BT at least gives you gobs more power, which makes sense. But its a step backwards in terms of an offroad vehicle, adding enormous weight.

As someone else stated before- finding parts will also be difficult. I dont even know what tranny goes behind that nissan, but I can almost put some wager that any local autoparts store wont carry them. Its a reliable enough of a motor that you may not need it!

Third, you better find a way to control this motor , if it isnt fully mechanical. Its going to be an interesting project to get the wiring harnesses to work with each other (not impossible, just annoying and time consuming).

 

[u2slow]

Nobody's mentioned the Scout II used the SD33. With a T18/19 trans and D20/300 t-cases.

Hey look... a pic!

Honestly, Phoenix, I think you'd get more useful responses at Pirate4x4, Binder Bulletin, or a dedicated diesel site.

get a member ship

 

[rjfguitar]

I can even see the 4BT argument- more power than the 6.2/6.5, though I couldnt see doing all the work for a 4bt. THe 6BT at least gives you gobs more power, which makes sense. But its a step backwards in terms of an offroad vehicle, adding enormous weight.

Woh Woh.....Yes it would be a lot of work to adapt ANY engine that didn't come factory into our trucks, including a 4BT or 6BT. But....You mention that you would just skip a 4BT and go with a 6BT? But that would be a step backwards for an offroad vehicle? That is why guys that wheel heavy go with the 4 banger version instead.



Anyway, I think Pheonix already has his mind made up. Sure, there are better, more cost effective routes that will deliver a lot more power and be easier to install.....( ) but he wants the little Nissan. More power to him....but not as much as the guy with a 4BT.

 

[PhoenixZorn]

rjfguitar... I have't made up my mind, and I appologize if I made it sound that way... honestly, I haven't decided at all yet. My arguement is that the Nissan motor costs 1/4 of what the 4BT costs... unless someone can find me a running 4BT for about $1000.00 that doesn't need a rebuild... I've searched everywhere... e-bay, cars.com, junkyards (new york had a motor for me... heh) and I've not found any 4BT for less than $4000. After everything is done on that motor, I will have $10,000 into it. As it stands right now, I could sell the second blazer with the 400, the 327 block, and my 356 for about $4000. That would give me enough money to buy the Nissan and tranny, and pay for any fab work that would need to be done.

Like I said before, all brand loyalty aside, I'm looking to do a diesel swap and not go broke... I don't care about what brand will get me the most respect... I do care about parts availability, but it's been said before that these engines were used in Scouts as well as Box trucks across the US... The biggest benefit of them is that they are still being made.

On the "Lack of Power" issue, this SD33T motor (turboed version) has been put into Nissan Skylines for drag cars and rally cars for the same reason we put diesels into our trucks... The SD33T is capable of as much power as the RB26DETT which is the twin turbo gas version of the Skyline motor. It will easily exceed 500hp and I would guess that it's capable of 1000ft lbs when race bombed.... not that I'd need to do that.

I am not deciding on the Nissan... or the Cummins... hell you could imagine that I asked about a Mitsubishi Fuso motor... all I'm trying to do is save money in the long run... if I get a low mileage Diesel motor... no matter the brand, it will last longer than my truck. An initial cost of $4000 is acceptable... but any more than that, and I might as well keep my gas guzzler and build the 383.

 

[unclematty]

Pheonix, if it were me I'd just do what you want, I've been bending wrenches for better then a decade, and I don't see the difference between the swap your doing and anything else anyone else has done, I run a caddy 512 in mine, and I love it! And, yes it was a horrible PIA to get it mated to the 465. I personally would go for it if you can get the motor cheaply, it'ed be a one of a kind, good luck!

 

[BadDog]

PZ, as a few other open minded individuals have said, good luck on your swap. The Nissan sounds like a nice little motor and I for one would like to know a bit more about it. I've been sniffing around for a diesel swap on one, maybe two K5s.

I was mostly focusing on a 4BT because it can be an easy swap, much easier than the 6BT that is so heavy it needs suspension upgrades and impacts off-road performance, so long you have trouble with the core support, and so tall it can cause axles/hood clearance issues. Down side of 4BT is that they are hard to find in decent shape for decent coin, they are fairly weak with very narrow power curves in stock form, and they tend to vibrate MUCH worse than other diesels due to the 4 cyl design. Up side is parts availability can't be beat (in a diesel) and reliability is way up there the category of small diesel. It also can be "turned up" just like a 6BT with VE pump, but it is not in the same league as the "P series pump" 6BT. Still, with a turbo swap, injectors (optional), and a turned up pump it can do some respectable numbers. The turbo that comes on them is generally regarded to be too large and mostly responsible for the narrow power curve. A somewhat smaller turbo flattens out the curve and improves mpg as well as over all drivability.

So much for my thoughts on the 4BT. Just included to try to help by passing on what I've learned. And don't pay any attention to all the "Oh, the horror!" responses to Jap/Domestic, Ford/GM, or whatever combo you come up with. Someone is always going to whine "that's just wrong!" Find the best combo for you're goals and let them go find sub optimal combos that don't offend their sensibilities.

As for me, I may be doing some sniffing around on that Nissan diesel too. I had discounted it earlier because I thought parts would be a problem as well as after market performance support. Sounds like I might have been mistaken. I would be very interested in dimensions, bell housing info, and so on if you have it. Posting links to other sites where you find info would be great too.

Good thread, please keep us informed.

 

[rjfguitar]

I am very suprised that $4k was the best price you could come up with on a 4BT, if that is the case than I fully support a different power plant. $4k is way too much.

Regardless, if money is the main concern than go with what you feel will be the best economic decision for yourself.

 

[PhoenixZorn]

I'm gonna do some heavy research into dimensions, weight, power band charts, applications, parts availability and compatibility with our beloved transmissions... or the 4x4 tranny that came with the scout may handle it, but I think that was auto only... not sure. I'll get back to you guys after I've completed my research.

Start of research complete...

The SD33 I6 is a 4x4 motor that the guys sells with the tranny and t-case mated to it already. However, this motor is old as the last one they made was for the 1980 IH Scout II. They now use the RD28 I6, and he said that it is actually an easy swap and and fairly easy to mate a manual tranny and t-case to from just about any vehicle. He has personally put this motor in a few wranglers, cherokees and full size broncos, but not a Blazer... he said it will be about as involved as puting a Chevy V8 in a Heep, and he said that the value of the truck will go up. Where he based the last statement from, I don't know... but he said if I call him tomorrow, he'll walk me through the whole swap, start to finish, e-mail me pictures of how it's all done, and all that fun sh*t... I would imagine it would rais the resale value because of the increase in MPG, ease of operation and expected life of the motor, but I can't be sure. I'll be asking if he would possibly have an RD42, which by the name would suggest that it is a 4.2L I6, which is the largest motor found in the Nissan UD trucks. As a side note, these engines are found in 9000lb forklifts according to one such forklift on e-bay right now.

 

[jacksprat1599]

sd-33t

I have driven an sd33 turbo in an 80 scout traveler,this is just a little longer than a scout 2 and has a heavier fiberglass top.This was a four speed manual truck and I want you to know they are SLOW.Scouts with the 192cu in. four cylinder gas motor are much quicker I would really be cautious about using this motor in a blazer.I don't if the motor you are considering is rated at more or less power than the old scout Nissan diesels but you are going to need more power than the scout versions.Having said that, I have read some posts over on the binderbulletin.org and some guys have over 350k on their SD33's and they seem to be as reliable as any cummins. The bulletin has a diesel formum with some pretty knowledgeable guys that could help you out in the areas of parts availability and performance mods.

 

[PhoenixZorn]

jacksprat, thanks for that info... i found the same info at Binder Bulletin, which is another reason I decided on the RD28 instead of the SD33. The RD28 is the current model, still fully mechanical, and has around the same power and torque as the 4bt due to the fact that it's a I6... Yeah, I know I need 2 more cylinders to make the same power, but there are guys over at Binder who are bombing the hell out of these Nissan motors... I only found one post pertaining to the RD28 over there, but plenty of SD33 info.

 

[79k20350]

the forklift at work is a nissan and has a 6 cylinder motor. not sure if its the same one though. pretty easy to work on. very narrow range of rpms (prolly just the way its gear for the machine) Its been good and reliable though. we use it every day for 3-4 hours and have had it for 8 yrs. regular maintance and its held up real well

 

[PhoenixZorn]

Clicky
This is the current state of the project... I called the guy, and when I said my truck weighs 5500lbs, he suggested the above link instead of the RD28. This engine is a 4cyl, 3.3L 125hp. He doesn't know exact torque numbers, but he did mention that I'll likely get 25-30mpg since the Blazer is lighter than the Shorty School Busses they put these in, and they are getting around 20mpg. He also said they rebuild the motors when they get here, they are run tested, warrantied, painted, packed, and shipped to your door. It includes the 5 speed tanny, so I'll have an overdrive, and he suggested I take the whole truck to a driveline shop to match the t-case to the tranny and the driveshafts to the new length. He said the rest of the parts needed are included with the engine, I'll be using the original gas tank and lines (I'll need to replace them anyway...) stock fan and radiator work fine. They include the alternator, water pump, and the original fan still attached, but suggested possibly changing to electric fans.

His final comment was this... "In America, your 1-ton trucks have something like 6.5L, 7.3L, 6.9L, etc... but in Japan, because the torque is set up differently, and the engines are more efficient, they run 2.8L, 3.3L and 4.2L in 1-ton trucks, all the way through to full size school busses."

I don't know if I should be super weary of this guy... or be excited about the swap. I would normally never buy anything from a e-bay seller with less than a 40 rating, and this guy has 35... which is somewhat comforting as it's more than say, 6... but still, it seems like they haven't been doing this for very long. After looking at their feedback however, they look fairly decent, lots of praise, and not much negative...

I just sent him an e-mail with a bunch of questions that should be easily answered by a seller, including asking if my Blazer could be the "test" rig for Chevy Trucks... he said he has put a RD28 in a few full size blazers, but that was a couple years ago. The Blazers apparently were used to drive into Mango bogs to collect and deliver Mangos in Mexico... heh... who knew. Anyway, I await his answers, and so far, it's looking good.

By the way, the dimensions are not available yet... but he did say that it is not as tall as the Cummins 4BT... he is working on the rest of the dimensions for me, including dry weight.

 

[smalltruckbigcid]

What about.....

PZ you're in farmer country...what about a perkins turbo'd 354 6 cyl. They came in Massey Ferguson combines and tractors, think tractor salvage yards, there are a couple a few hours from your house. The perkins is a damn tough engine and are usually good for 10,000 hours between overhauls. I used to be a custom harvester and the ones I used were run at full throttle all day long for 5,000 hours and then were traded. In 8 years of use and 30 different machines we never had any major failures, all I remember is a couple of water pumps and 1 injection pump for parts failures. HP ratings is 165@2600rpm and TQ is 360@1600rpm. This engine really likes getting the fuel rate and timing bumped up. The power rating for this engine is conservative.
Here's a link for research www.samstractor.com/salvage.html www.perkins.com Good luck
George

 

[rjfguitar]

The perkins is a damn tough engine and are usually good for 10,000 hours between overhauls. I used to be a custom harvester and the ones I used were run at full throttle all day long for 5,000 hours and then were traded.

I am into buying and selling equipment and have come across Cat Challengers with 15-16,000 hours on the original engine. Yes, 16K hours. It is in fact all at WOT at full RPM but you also have to remember that engines in tractors don't see other obuses like most engines. One is most all tractors are governed in the 2100-2500RPM range, that is on average about 600-900RPM's below their true redline. The biggest thing is they don't go through heat cycles. They may run at WOT but as long as they don't run too warm, they like the steady, continous load hours on end. That really helps their longevity and stamina. I would imagine that the cummins ISB in my pickup wouldn't last as long as it would if it were in a tractor. With it in my pickup it will probably see 10 times the amount of heat cycles vs. if it were in a tractor running continuously for long hours at a time.

 

[dyeager535]

I would imagine it would rais the resale value because of the increase in MPG, ease of operation and expected life of the motor, but I can't be sure.

If you are thinking along the lines of raising resale, you might as well stop now. I can think of exactly two domestic automobiles (I'm sure there are more, you get the point) that you can dump money into and come out selling them for more than the sum of the parts, and those are older Corvette's and 67-69 Camaro's. That's of course assuming your time to get them to resale point is worth absolutely nothing.

Honestly, hearing someone talk about "resale value" only means to me "I'm not going to hold onto this vehicle for the long haul" and in that case, doesn't really matter what you do as long as it runs when you sell it. If anything, a non-stock engine that is less than common will dissuade a lot of potential buyers, because admit it, the majority of people buying '73-87 trucks are not looking for something "one off", moreso, a cheap, decent looking truck that gets them where they want to go and hasn't been overly molested or beat up.

I can't think of anyone who has made money selling a truck after investing tons of money into it. Go look in the rigs for sale section, I guarantee many of the ads state how much is invested in the truck, and how little of that they are asking in return.

Let me reiterate: don't worry about resale on one of these trucks.

 

[PhoenixZorn]

Well gents... and ladies... I've decided to scrap the whole idea... I have too much money into these trucks as it is, and I've decided to cut my losses... The engine from my 86 will go up for sale here and at other boards for half of what I paid for it, considering it needs an intake and carb (and I know it lost some value by just installing it into my truck.) The 80 Blazer I just purchased is currently looking for a new home as well. The seller is currently searching for a new buyer, and I'm not going to need the tub, so he will be re-listing that here as well.

To help him sell it, I will tell you that this truck has a small block of unknown size. Tags suggest a 350, but MISFIT014X4 said it was a 400. It has Vortec heads, an automatic choke quadrajet, and the TH350 trans and NP208 case are now working nicely after a few hours working with my mechanic to figure out what was going on. Before I had even bought this truck, I had $300 invested in parts to make it driveable, and I worked with the seller and friends to get it done right. The motor needs a tune-up, and the rig itself has some cancerous body panels, but the floor is solid. The truck also has A/C but it needs to be charged.

I've been under it long enough to know that it was built for mild trail duty, as it has a gas tank skid plate, and the NP205 in the "trunk" has a skid plate as well. It will come with a non-working TH350 and the NP205 that we took out, to keep the parts matching. It is running on a 10-bolt front and a 12-bolt rear, with about a 3.42 or 3.73 gear ratio. This number is unknown because the motor isn't up to snuff on pushing it, but at 65mph, it doesn't feel like it straining to push the 31 inch tires. It also has a roll bar across the back for safety when the top is off, and it's my understanding that the top has been off the truck often in the last few years.

It rides quite smooth for a 1980. It has a stock suspension in the rear with 4 cut leaf springs for a 2-3" lift, and a third leaf spring up front to even out the ride. Oddly enough, it rides better than my 86. The rear window rolls up and down with both the front switch and by key. It has sliding side windows, and power windows. The driver side window rolls up and down, but the passenger side window seems to have a short somewhere. It sparks when active and touching metal, but the motor doesn't turn. 4-wheel drive works well, though a shift stick has to be attached to the transfer case, and the front drive shaft needs to be put back on the truck.

For all intents and purposes, this is now my truck, and the asking price is $1100.00 oBo. If the original seller finds a buyer, then I'll gladly forfeit some of the asking price to get rid of it, but as all I really did was test drive it for 80 miles and fix what was wrong with it, I think it's worth the price. Yes, my asking price is more than I paid, but I put in a transmission and transfer case out of my own pocket before I even had posession of the title, and the extra parts are being included.




Now, I'm sure you are all asking why the sudden change of heart when I was so set on doing this huge and time consuming (read life consuming) swap and build up of a dually blazer...

My mechanic has offered me a great deal on a good condition 6.2L 86+ Suburban Sierra Classic. It has working A/C, all power windows work, it has a working rear window (tailgate style) and the interior is pristine. With the little bit of body rust on this truck, and the overall condition of the rig as a whole... I can't pass it up. Plus, the 4 doors, A/C, and diesel make it an Ideal family truck, and I'll get my diesel engine finally. The only thing I found physically wrong with the burb is that the 700R4 tranny is shot. It doesn't go in any gear. It seems like my life story now... buy rig, find something wrong with it, fix it, get rid of it... I plan on using the SM465 in the burb, which my mechanic thinks is silly due to the fact that he's never seen a manual burb. This is the rig I plan to keep... it has everything I was going to put into the 86 Blazer and more. It will get a fresh coat of paint, lots of TLC without the money issue involved, and it will hold my entire family for trips, hunting, camping or whatever we decide to do.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time with this conversion idea.

 

[PhoenixZorn]

Ttt

 

[HELLBENT DESIGNS]

good choice and you can drive it now instead of 2 years from now! i would rebuild the 700r4 and stay with the overdrive.

 

[PhoenixZorn]

HELLBENT, I'm getting the burb for $1000.... if I get the tranny rebuilt instead of using my own, suddenly the price goes up to 1600 or 1900 depending on where I rebuild the tranny.