Electric k5

[lectric80]

seriously, seriously, I am seriously seriously asking that question. seriously!! you are seriously up playing the milage of that set up, and seriously down playing the milage of diesel. I'd throw a diesel in it and make some bio diesel and viola, all the torque you could need!! seriously!!

I get bio diesel from my neighbor for a $1.00 a gallon, hows that for standing $5-6 gasoline?? and I didn't even need to use a 1000 pounds of batteries.. seriously!!

So what you are saying then is that you are getting more than 20 MPG, so what mileage are you getting? While I agree that it is not at 50 MPG now, with technology improvements it could be made to accomplish this. Do a little research on some of the new electric designs and see what they are truly getting. I have seen several that use a small diesel generator, granted in a car, that are getting close to the 100 MPG range. Combine that with running biodiesel and you have a viable solution to the planned elimination of our vehicles.

While this vehicle is currently more show than go, bashing it for not being diesel or gas powered, but closer to a hybrid, is not finding solutions that ensure that we can still be driving this old steel 10-20 years from now. There are plenty of people out there that want to take away these vehicles for their inefficiency, why not find tech that can improve our odds of keeping them?

Diesel, while slightly more efficient than gas, is not going to be the long term solution. Biodiesel increases other emissions while knocking down some, so it can't be the long term solution or we will have a different fight in 10-20 years. With improvements in battery tech, think li-ion, this type of solution might be viable for many years to come. We need to start thinking like this to have any hope of keeping our vehicles. I certainly don't plan to replace my Blazer with some econobox that can't tow my trailer or get me to my hunting grounds. So I will look at technology like this with a far more open mind than you are using.

 

[hoodride]

I wrote a 24 pg. technical report on how offroading affects the environment and have seen some cool designs for electric off road vehicles. The army actually designed one with a similar diesel generator/battery setup that had a 400 mile range. I'll see if I cant dig up the name of it. Jamie of the show "Mythbusters" also designed a battery powered ATV that's pretty cool.

All in all though, when talking STRICTLY about offroading, emissions testing has shown there is little to no evidence of vehicular activity in most OHV parks simply because of the amount of land vs. vehicles. It disperses, and trees combat this. Fuel costs on the other hand are pretty damn evident, so I'm all about checking out new stuff.

 

[85-m1028]

So what you are saying then is that you are getting more than 20 MPG, so what mileage are you getting? While I agree that it is not at 50 MPG now, with technology improvements it could be made to accomplish this. Do a little research on some of the new electric designs and see what they are truly getting. I have seen several that use a small diesel generator, granted in a car, that are getting close to the 100 MPG range. Combine that with running biodiesel and you have a viable solution to the planned elimination of our vehicles.

While this vehicle is currently more show than go, bashing it for not being diesel or gas powered, but closer to a hybrid, is not finding solutions that ensure that we can still be driving this old steel 10-20 years from now. There are plenty of people out there that want to take away these vehicles for their inefficiency, why not find tech that can improve our odds of keeping them?

Diesel, while slightly more efficient than gas, is not going to be the long term solution. Biodiesel increases other emissions while knocking down some, so it can't be the long term solution or we will have a different fight in 10-20 years. With improvements in battery tech, think li-ion, this type of solution might be viable for many years to come. We need to start thinking like this to have any hope of keeping our vehicles. I certainly don't plan to replace my Blazer with some econobox that can't tow my trailer or get me to my hunting grounds. So I will look at technology like this with a far more open mind than you are using.

incase you forgot these vehicles are already out of production. I'm interested in running a vehicle that is cheap and easy to maintain, I can live with 20mpg. rather than go along to get along on this whole PC environmental, global warming B.S. I will stand up and fight the politics and do my be best to expose the true intent of this global warming hoax!

Just because some beuracrat tells me that the internal combustion engine is obsolete doesn't make it so.. You really think if you turn an old 4x4 truck into a hybrid that magicaly the greenies and liberals will think your cool??

grow a pair!

 

[lectric80]

Grow a pair, ok! So what if these vehicles are out of production, does that mean I should sell my Blazer to buy a Tahoe? Or should everyone who has old vehicles suddenly get rid of them in favor of some new economy car? Sorry, buying any new vehicle over running my old ones is not friendly to the environment, nor does it make any sense to my pocketbook. And cheap and easy to maintain can become expensive and impossible to maintain with attitudes like yours.

First, I don't agree with the whole global warming thing, I have read more than enough historical trends to ignore most of that crap. But, if you truly believe that you are going to be able to keep your old iron forever you are a fool. I don't even care if the greenies like me or think I am cool. I do however intend to keep my Blazer for many years to come, so looking at making it sustainable is important.

Sure you can run biodiesel, the merits of which are just as doubtful as the global warming hoax. It reduces some emissions while increasing others. It also helps drive the cost of food products up in some cases. Ethanol does the same thing, and also drives fuel economy into the toilet.

However, as we saw last year, the price of gas is not going to stay affordable forever. And being forced to get rid of my Blazer because it is no longer affordable to drive more than once or twice a year is out of the question. It is also not feasible to buy something newer that is more fuel efficient, since cost is a factor. So, if technology can be used to ensure I can continue to drive my Blazer for the next 50 years, and still use it at Moab, then why are you so against people trying to create this technology?

Before you go calling me out, you might want to do a bit of research on the future, because dinosaurs like you are going the way of the dodo. Times are changing, and you can either help the changes and help maintain our history, or you can be passed by and allow our history to be forgotten in the junk piles.

 

[lectric80]

I get bio diesel from my neighbor for a $1.00 a gallon, hows that for standing $5-6 gasoline?? and I didn't even need to use a 1000 pounds of batteries.. seriously!!

Be sure to let us know how that works out for him when he is busted for tax evasion. You know, those pesky taxes that are required whenever a fuel is used to power a vehicle over any public roadway. For the rest of the world, we have to pay what the pump price is, and that includes the taxes that the fed and state charge.

 

[DR]

Does this build really need to be practical? Hell, I just took a fairly nice K5 that was a daily driver and ripped it apart. Took all the insides out, did all kinds of things to ruin the already not so great gas milage, and made it so my once daily driver can only be driven once or twice a month... Eventually, it will need a trailer to get to the trail! But I love it!

My point is, he isn't doing anything different than the rest of us. He is taking a vehicle that he loved to begin with, changing it to fit his specific wants and needs, and trying to make it as cool and unique as possible. The only difference is, it may end up helping us all out someday. If it doesnt, oh well! He still ends up with a unique truck that everyone will want to look at if they like it or not, and that he will love to drive.... I cant see any negative in that.

 

[four_by_ken]

Does this build really need to be practical? Hell, I just took a fairly nice K5 that was a daily driver and ripped it apart. Took all the insides out, did all kinds of things to ruin the already not so great gas milage, and made it so my once daily driver can only be driven once or twice a month... Eventually, it will need a trailer to get to the trail! But I love it!

My point is, he isn't doing anything different than the rest of us. He is taking a vehicle that he loved to begin with, changing it to fit his specific wants and needs, and trying to make it as cool and unique as possible. The only difference is, it may end up helping us all out someday. If it doesnt, oh well! He still ends up with a unique truck that everyone will want to look at if they like it or not, and that he will love to drive.... I cant see any negative in that.

that is true.... but what it sounds like he wants it to be... just isnt feasible. I dont see it happening and functioning like that.

It would be like someone saying they are going to put giant front end loader tires on their Blazer to make it the best wheeler out there. When we all know that front end loader tires wont get you to the end result you want.

 

[DR]

that is true.... but what it sounds like he wants it to be... just isnt feasible. I dont see it happening and functioning like that.

It would be like someone saying they are going to put giant front end loader tires on their Blazer to make it the best wheeler out there. When we all know that front end loader tires wont get you to the end result you want.

Also very true.... But the statement "that will never work" is always followed by " make sure to post pics"

 

[dyeager535]

@dyeager yes weight is a factor, but mostly in the power needed to accelerate. At higher speeds the air drag is the killer. In the EV and hypermile worlds more care is taken to avoid drag than weight, though extra weight is to be avoided as well. And yes if the electric motor has the same continuous rating as the ICE they shuold have basically the same perfomance in the same car (note though that the ICE has higher peaks so this is not exactly correct).

I'm a bit skeptical of a claim that drag is the "real" killer. What hyper mile vehicle weighs 7000lbs, let alone 5000? Weight increases rolling resistance. The tires required to support 7000lbs increase rolling resistance themselves, solely based on their size. Not to mention even more weight.

People on this very sight are running high single digits with fairly stock trucks that are heavy, while others are running 15-17 with stock trucks which aren't encumebred by additional weight. Aerodynamics haven't changed there...

Hypermile world vehicles are already incredibly light (my "normal" ICE car is something like 2500lbs, stock) reducing weight on these would be difficult at best. So the focus has to be on aerodynamics. Of course, from the factory they are also restricted by safety standards.

 

[pnel128]

Sorry Dyeager, guess I didn't really explain that very well. At lower speeds and while accelerating weight is the big factor in energy required to move the object. Weight is still a factor at higher speeds as well, but drag increases exponentially with speed. (Weight hopefull does not change) Thus the reason hyper milers drive slower (and don't floor it) and why most EV conversions do not exceed 55-60mph (it takes to much energy thus reducing range). Everyone works to reduce both weight and drag, but EVs to improve range have to add weight (bateries/energy storage). So to increase range I have to do some combination of these: Drive slower, reduce weight, increase energy stored, or decrease drag overall. Weight reduction is the hardest to do and relatively provides the smallest gains. In fact hypermilers have found that adding weight in a form that reduces drag is more benefical overall (and yes the added weight could negate the savings if not done properly)


For those who think this will not meet my expectations- God I hope your wrong, but I have the same resevations. These bodies were never meant to move so efficently and what I want to do pushes the bounds of what has been done before. Mostly b/c I want this truck to perform the same or better than it already does. Will it be easy? No, but that is what makes this idea exciting.

Its not about global warming. Its about efficency and the lowest common demoniator. No matter what the fuel of choice is for the rest of time it will always be about energy conversion, and as long as I can store/harness that energy this truck will move on down the road.

And yes 85-m1028 the ICE has always been obsolete. Over 100 years ago electrics won the day. However, petro fuels had a better weight to energy density (and lower price point) than batteries and thus ICE's became the standard.

 

[pnel128]

So back on topic, I will most likely have to swap the axles and springs (and always tires ) to improve my GWVR. And that weight increase will improve my ability to carry the load (not detract from it) and should only reduce my performance in the sense it is extra weight (and my ride quality b/c it is unsprung) But with that done this rig should hold together safely long term, as long as I take care to get the truck back to showroom quality first and maintain it.

Would anyone disagree with the above though process?

 

[four_by_ken]

So back on topic, I will most likely have to swap the axles and springs (and always tires ) to improve my GWVR. And that weight increase will improve my ability to carry the load (not detract from it) and should only reduce my performance in the sense it is extra weight (and my ride quality b/c it is unsprung) But with that done this rig should hold together safely long term, as long as I take care to get the truck back to showroom quality first and maintain it.

Would anyone disagree with the above though process?

Disagree with the process,no.

Will it work and be a viable electric vehicle... I still so no way. Look what it takes to convert an S-10 to electric. And with that you are lucky to hit 100 miles in range. And that is with it being dog slow and in perfect weather conditions.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

Rather than cluttering this thread with other alternative power ideas and debate (let this one stick to the electric!) I figured I'd start a new one:

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2461021#post2461021

 

[85-m1028]

Be sure to let us know how that works out for him when he is busted for tax evasion. You know, those pesky taxes that are required whenever a fuel is used to power a vehicle over any public roadway. For the rest of the world, we have to pay what the pump price is, and that includes the taxes that the fed and state charge.

I try not to do my part to subsidize public transportation, mass transit, and light rail lines, being that I think we should fixing roads and not killing the automobile. Public transportation fund running billion dollar defecits is not my idea of $$ well spent.. how's that for patriotic duty?

 

[85-m1028]

Its not about global warming. Its about efficency and the lowest common demoniator. No matter what the fuel of choice is for the rest of time it will always be about energy conversion, and as long as I can store/harness that energy this truck will move on down the road.

And yes 85-m1028 the ICE has always been obsolete. Over 100 years ago electrics won the day. However, petro fuels had a better weight to energy density (and lower price point) than batteries and thus ICE's became the standard.

the way I see it petrol is the cheapest as long as government would get out the way!

and a hybrid would not exist without a ICE under the hood, and if it's all electric then what would I do if ran out of juice on my way to work? How would I plan a cross country trip? and where does the energy come from to recharge the batts??

 

[loafer]

I would put some serious thought into cutting weight down:
- ditch the hard top for a soft top
- ditch the rear tailgate for a pickup tailgate
- use a 14bsf rear axle with disk brakes instead of the 14bff
- keep the 10 bolt front unless you plan to wheel it
- fiberglass front fenders (if they are actually lighter than the steel ones…I believe these can be purchased)
- fiberglass or carbon/epoxy hood
- I'm sure there are more ways to loose weight...

So back on topic, I will most likely have to swap the axles and springs (and always tires ) to improve my GWVR. And that weight increase will improve my ability to carry the load (not detract from it) and should only reduce my performance in the sense it is extra weight (and my ride quality b/c it is unsprung) But with that done this rig should hold together safely long term, as long as I take care to get the truck back to showroom quality first and maintain it.

Would anyone disagree with the above though process?

 

[pnel128]

the way I see it petrol is the cheapest as long as government would get out the way!

and a hybrid would not exist without a ICE under the hood, and if it's all electric then what would I do if ran out of juice on my way to work? How would I plan a cross country trip? and where does the energy come from to recharge the batts??

Agreed.

Agreed- sorta.

Plan ahead just like you do with an ICE and you will get to work.

Cross Country- (1)don't (2) drive slow and charge where you can/solar (3)fly (4) rent a car (5) hybrid -not always with ICE-

Energy is all around us. It can come from the sun, or the wind, or flowing water, or thermal , or yes burning fossil fuels


@loafer

would the fiberglass upfront provide the same crash protection cause I'd hate to loose that since I won't really have anything other than me up there to absorb the impact.

 

[loafer]

would the fiberglass upfront provide the same crash protection cause I'd hate to loose that since I won't really have anything other than me up there to absorb the impact.

Well, you would likely loose some collision protection, but there is still a pretty rugged steel frame under there...and that is what the bumper is connected to

 

[loafer]

I went to the Physics Lab website to check out some more of the pics.

There is some innovative stuff, but I have to wonder if the extra weight for the regenerative shock system is more of a penalty. Are those hydraulic rams steel? The fab work for mounting the accumulator looks pretty heavy too. If the system you have has demonstrated the concept well, maybe the next step is a redesign focused on weight reduction.

Also, is the battery tray in the rear steel? I would look for ways to lighten that up as well. Though I'm sure the batteries are significant compared to the tray.

 

[imiceman44]

Agreed.

Agreed- sorta.

Plan ahead just like you do with an ICE and you will get to work.

Cross Country- (1)don't (2) drive slow and charge where you can/solar (3)fly (4) rent a car (5) hybrid -not always with ICE-

Energy is all around us. It can come from the sun, or the wind, or flowing water, or thermal , or yes burning fossil fuels


@loafer

would the fiberglass upfront provide the same crash protection cause I'd hate to loose that since I won't really have anything other than me up there to absorb the impact.

It's amazing what propaganda can do to people.
When did we start needing a crumple zone to protect us in a crash?
When the manufacturers decided to remove the frame for weight reduction and went unibody, now it was just sheet metal between you and the wall.
In my brother's 73 blazer, we were going 65-70 and some one cut us off and my brother was pushed into a wall, well a concrete Jersey, didn't get the chance to brake or anything we jut instantly turned into it and hit, it was a construction zone.
The frame and the bumper took the hit, the sheet metal stayed the same, we felt like we hit sand and just stopped, we didn't lurch forward, we didn't fly into the windshield, nothing...
Even better were the older boats that had a shock behind the bumper.
Our frame got bent but it protected us.
Crumple zone my ass.