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Eliminate EGR?

vandelay industries

vandelay industries

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Eliminate EGR? Your thoughts?


i don't have anything against EGR and what it does; i mainly wanted to clear up some space and clutter.

What are your thoughts on eliminating the EGR valve? If, in fact, it really does help the engine last longer (supposedly) then i don't have a problem leaving it. It's a stock transportation engine so i'm not necessarily wanting to remove it for any performance benefit.

Again, it's mainly to clear up some space---this is on a 4.3 v-6 with the factory "hi-rise" manifold. In this case the EGR valve is right in front of the carb and slightly below it. It's basically blocking the passenger side idle mixture screw.
 
Some engine dont like pinging when the EGR is blocked off or removed...that can reduce engine life,and that is what the EGR helps prevent..if it also has a knock sensor,it might retard the timing if it detects pinging,which wont help your fuel mileage or performance...also you'll fail any emssion tests if your state or country has them,it'll set a check engine light code and make the CEL light stay on...

I have removed many an EGR valve on older engines,but the newer computerized ones are fussier about running without one..
 
The EGR helps reduce NOx and cools the cylinder temps which helps prevent detonation. It does not affect performance and should be left intact and operational.
 
Well . . .

4X4HIGH said:
The EGR helps reduce NOx and cools the cylinder temps which helps prevent detonation. It does not affect performance and should be left intact and operational.
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As it substitutes exhaust gases for clean oxygen rich air I cannot help but believe (as many do here and at other such forums I am part of) that it most certainly affects performance.

How much may be in issue, and I am not saying to just yank it willy-nilly, as stated above on new engines it's removal may cause other issues.

Mine was gone when I got my truck, and I have a dual plane non-EGR intake on my civilian (i.e. non-J code) diesel K5 somebody added I'm assuming when they added the Banks turbo. No issues with the deletion for me, but my truck is older.
 
Egr is only utilized during lean cruise. It basically lowered combustion temp allowing the lean cruise to be even leaner without detonation. This is not during a performance parameter which basically make that argument null.
 
Why are you worried about clutter on a stock transportation engine? Just leave it stock. It may help the engine warm up quicker in the winter months and if you have to pass emissions it may fail without it.

However, saying it doesn't effect performance is not the case. The reason the combustion process is cooler is because the already spent exhaust gas contains less oxygen than clean air which requires less fuel and produces less heat and power during combustion. Also, even when you shut it off the intake manifold will remain hotter than without it, reducing performance even when it is not in use.

Although I will say, for your vehicle, I would leave it functional. I remove it from everything but my DD vehicle.
 
If you remove it, the tune should be adjusted. It might not run bad without any tuning changes, but you might not get any benefit either, which would make it a waste of time. You could always unplug it to see if you notice the difference. It's possibly plugged and not doing anything anyway. Removing it without changing anything else will not make more power or use less gas, so why bother?

As for clutter, what is the loss? 1 2-wire cable and 1 vacuum hose? What will you do with extra 8 cubic inches underhood that "huge" EGR valve is consuming?
 
You would notice no difference in engine mixture except at lean cruise (high vaccum, low throttle input situations).

A properly functioning EGR has absolutely zero impact on engine performance except to reduce NOx emissions and allow more timing by cooling the combustion temperatures to prevent pinging when you're cruising along. This is definitely not a bad thing as NOx emissions are bad news for our air quality. Anyone who sees a performance gain by removing one had a malfunctioning EGR system in the first place.
 
Well . . .

A properly functioning EGR has absolutely zero impact on engine performance except to reduce NOx emissions and allow more timing by cooling the combustion temperatures to prevent pinging when you're cruising along.
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However, as stated above it does this by replacing some fresh oxygen rich air with exhaust gases with little to no oxygen, which cannot help but affect performance.

The less nitrate compound argument is why the EGR was invented, and I certainly like breathing good air, but that does not mean some level of performance was not lost.
 
However, this is not when the engine needs any more fuel to perform. Hense the low load, high vaccum, low throttle position state. The engine does not burn more fuel as it does not need or even want a richer mixture while the EGR should be active for the best efficiency. Therefor, it does not detract from performance and one could even argue it can improve efficiency.

If the EGR is recycling exhaust gas under load, at idle etc then it will have an impact on performance but that is not a properly functioning recirculation system.
 
Russell said:
However, this is not when the engine needs any more fuel to perform. Hense the low load, high vaccum, low throttle position state. The engine does not burn more fuel as it does not need or even want a richer mixture while the EGR should be active for the best efficiency. Therefor, it does not detract from performance and one could even argue it can improve efficiency.

If the EGR is recycling exhaust gas under load, at idle etc then it will have an impact on performance but that is not a properly functioning recirculation system.
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I agree with everything you are saying about the EGR not being on at WOT, however, the EGR increases the temperature of the intake manifold, and it does not just immediately return to lower temp when you punch it, so incoming air temps are still higher when at WOT even if the EGR is functioning properly, which can reduce performance. Now, most people may not feel it(you would most likely feel it in a forced induction vehicle like a turbocharged car), but you could probably measure it at the track or on a dyno. This is with gas engines because it can only ingest so much air, and cold air can use more fuel for more power. Diesel is a different animal because there is no throttle and it's more dependent on combustion chamber temp, so I am not sure how a warmer intake would affect diesel performance, if at all?

Also, many people may remove it by swapping to a higher performance manifold, in which case they likely gained a lot of performance from the manifold swap, and extremely small or no performance from the actual EGR removal. But that could easily lead people to believe they saw a huge gain from their EGR removal.

And to the importer/exporter, I still say leave the EGR functional, I see no reason to remove it from a daily transportation vehicle.
 
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i thought i was in latex.....

Anyways, i probably will leave it on, but temporarily take it off to tune the carb etc. i will provide a picture to give a better idea why i debated removing it in the first place. Very busy now though.
 
I understand wanting to remove clutter. With my bigger valve covers, the EGR actually was getting in the way of wiring and stuff. I got rid of mine and accounted for it in the TBI tune. I don't think it bought me any noticeable performance, but it is one less thing to have to check out if there is some mystery symptom down the road.
 
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