Emissions Removal?

[476k5]

Hey Guys!

New here but this site has helped a lot in the past by just reading old threads. I just got a 1986 k20 with a 350 th350 ( I believe ). It was apparently a Cali truck and has a bunch of emissions stuff all over it. My question is how do I get rid of all the non essential emissions stuff. I don't really wanna do a carb and or manifold swap its going to be a plow / work truck. I just don't know where to start there are hoses everywhere...

Thanks for the help!

 

[kennyw]

You basically need to replace the carb and HEI. Then, plug the exhaust manifold ports.

 

[476k5]

I wondered if the carb would be able to be re used guess not. I figured as much because it has a lot going to it. Is it not ok to just cap off all the ports not used? Why would one need a new HEI I am lost on that one does it also has emissions inside it? Thank you for the reply!

 

[kennyw]

The CA emissions had a computer to control the timing in the HEI and the carb. Pull anything without replacing those with a non-emissions version and it will never run right.

 

[4X4HIGH]

Not that it matters to you or not but removing ANY emissions equipment is a FEDERAL crime.

 

[dyeager535]

Something to think about is that if it runs good now, leave it alone until it doesn't.

If it doesn't run right, rip away. Pretty basic to swap everything over to "normal" carburetion.

The systems didn't really suck, they were just too complex for not being fuel injection. When they work they work fine. When they fail they just aren't worth messing with.

 

[campfire]

Not that it matters to you or not but removing ANY emissions equipment is a FEDERAL crime.

I'm confused. How can that be a crime when (according to my state) I can legally install any drivetrain with any amount of emissions equipment into my truck? I'm still compliant with the rules and regulations that apply to my truck whether it has emissions equipment or not.

I can even take random pieces of scrap and create a vehicle to any specification that I wish (though it must comply with a few safety requirements to get a normal vehicle title issued & operate on the street).

Outside of Cali (and a few other places), is this really an issue?

 

[dyeager535]

It's not normally an issue except in states that do visual emissions inspections. Even states that do sniffer tests, if it runs clean enough, and they don't look under the hood, they'll never know. Overall it's a federal thing. That I'm aware of I've never heard of someone being charged federally for monkeying with their emissions.

If you really want to see it I can find the EPA document that spells out emissions controls very clearly, I think its from 1995. The funny thing is that it pretty much kills any off-road racing/events that allow former mass-produced vehicles made after emissions controls...it states in plain english that there is no "offroad exemption" (which was a statement many header manufacturers used on their headers, not many, if any still do) to any of the provisions. Apparently they have thus far turned a blind eye to those sorts of things.

Your state may not care, but technically the feds do. On a funny side note, it's federally illegal to ADD a catalytic converter to a vehicle as well!

 

[campfire]

It's not normally an issue except in states that do visual emissions inspections. Even states that do sniffer tests, if it runs clean enough, and they don't look under the hood, they'll never know. Overall it's a federal thing. That I'm aware of I've never heard of someone being charged federally for monkeying with their emissions.

...

Your state may not care, but technically the feds do.

Goofy. I guess that's par for federal regulations, though.

On a funny side note, it's federally illegal to ADD a catalytic converter to a vehicle as well!

On a similarly funny side note, my brother once went to an exhaust shop where he saw a sign reading "We will remove your catalytic converter if you pay the $200 fine for us."

And yet private people yank them regularly.

 

[dyeager535]

I believe the fine anymore is $10,000 for removal of a converter. Thus why any shops around here (at least) won't even entertain quoting exhaust work that is not factory over the phone. In person it might be a different story.

Here's the EPA letter I referenced, in case anyone wants to read it: http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/exhsysrepair.pdf

Funny, you still see "offroad use only", and that's not been allowed since at least the date of that letter, 1991.

 

[campfire]

I believe the fine anymore is $10,000 for removal of a converter. Thus why any shops around here (at least) won't even entertain quoting exhaust work that is not factory over the phone. In person it might be a different story.

Here's the EPA letter I referenced, in case anyone wants to read it: http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/exhsysrepair.pdf

Funny, you still see "offroad use only", and that's not been allowed since at least the date of that letter, 1991.

Odd that the rules would be so descriptive. I'm quite surprised, for instance, to find out that dual exhaust setups are not allowed unless specifically certified for that model by the manufacturer. And length, diameter, and shape of exhaust pipes may not be modified. I've yet to meet a shop that holds to these parameters.

I think this provision (dealing with adding cats to non-stock exhaust setups) may shed some light:

The Agency has exercised its enforcement discretion by not pursuing enforcement action against facilities for this type of repair work, although it could be considered tampering.

I'm betting that either laxer rules have been adopted or that its "enforcement discretion" has expanded over the years. Lots of shops will do custom exhaust now, in spite of what this document says.

Thanks for sharing. I would call it enlightening, but I think it's really just confusing. Which, as I said before, seems to be par for federal regulations.

 

[campfire]

Question for the Cali folks: How does California deal with vehicles like my M1009?

My core support sticker reads as follows:



Is that exemption still valid? If so, is it possible to "tamper" with it if it was exempted from requirements in the first place? If not, am I able to register it for road use, seeing that it never passed light-duty emissions testing? Civilian version of this truck had a couple pieces of emissions gear that I'm missing.

 

[476k5]

Hey Guys thank you for all the response I appreciate it. For now the truck runs great so that's the way shes gonna stay. First sign of trouble though and shes getting "fixed"

Thanks again guys!!

 

[4X4HIGH]

Question for the Cali folks: How does California deal with vehicles like my M1009?

My core support sticker reads as follows:

View attachment 174478

Is that exemption still valid? If so, is it possible to "tamper" with it if it was exempted from requirements in the first place? If not, am I able to register it for road use, seeing that it never passed light-duty emissions testing? Civilian version of this truck had a couple pieces of emissions gear that I'm missing.

The wording on the emissions decal says it's a federal emissions vehicle, so whatever was required for federal emissions testing must be on the vehicle. Now if it had said "conforms to US and California" then it would require more emissions equipment. Without the word California it is considered a 49 state vehicle and with the word California it is considered a 50 state vehicle.

 

[dyeager535]

Hey Guys thank you for all the response I appreciate it. For now the truck runs great so that's the way shes gonna stay. First sign of trouble though and shes getting "fixed"

Thanks again guys!!

If you plan on keeping the truck, it's not a bad idea to keep your eyes open for the replacement parts for when it starts acting up. As much junk as those trucks had on them, probably want a new thermostat housing on top of the distributor and the carb. Probably other stuff I'm forgetting.

The good thing is that since it runs good, you are in no hurry. Which means you can keep your eyes open for good deals. FWIW, the distributors can be bought complete, rebuilt, for around $100. Far better than dealing with used junk. The normal replacement components alone will cost you at least that much, if not more.

A good non-CCC (computer controlled carburetion) chev-pattern quadrajet is probably going to be the simplest swap when the time comes.

Or, save up and just swap the whole thing over to TBI, which beats any carb install hands down.

 

[campfire]

The wording on the emissions decal says it's a federal emissions vehicle, so whatever was required for federal emissions testing must be on the vehicle. Now if it had said "conforms to US and California" then it would require more emissions equipment. Without the word California it is considered a 49 state vehicle and with the word California it is considered a 50 state vehicle.

But it was not subject to federal emissions testing. Given that civilian trucks required extra equipment to pass testing, it seems reasonable to assume that this vehicle would fail. Does that mean that it can't be legalized in CA?

Or are you saying that it should be retrofitted with new smog gear to make it fit the requirements normally applied to vehicles of that class?

 

[4X4HIGH]

But it was not subject to federal emissions testing. Given that civilian trucks required extra equipment to pass testing, it seems reasonable to assume that this vehicle would fail. Does that mean that it can't be legalized in CA?

Or are you saying that it should be retrofitted with new smog gear to make it fit the requirements normally applied to vehicles of that class?

Every vehicle is subject to emissions testing unless exempted by year of vehicle (In california anything 1975 and older is exmpt). The decal says US without stating California so that is federal emissions and whether you live in California or not it will be tested as Federal emissions and you DO NOT need to install anything beyond what it came factory with.

 

[kennyw]

Except a CUCV is also a diesel and therefore exempt from any testing in the state of California.