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engine electronic questions

firemedicsafd

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I have a 305 motor in my k5. it was what i had at the time when i put frankenblazer back together. I converted a 79 motor to TBI with the intake and wiring. All the sensors had spots to put on to the motor to get readings and it worked great for a while. Now, since it is giving me the ESC code I'm curious. The ESC is only for a TBI 350. i believe the computer is for a 350 also. Is that the reason it is running like crap feeling like it is towing a trailer with no wheels only after it gets warm? i am planning on the Gen III swap as soon as i get some cash to buy the parts but i need this thing to run right until then. What do y'all think? Thank you!
 
I have a 305 motor in my k5. it was what i had at the time when i put frankenblazer back together. I converted a 79 motor to TBI with the intake and wiring. All the sensors had spots to put on to the motor to get readings and it worked great for a while. Now, since it is giving me the ESC code I'm curious. The ESC is only for a TBI 350. i believe the computer is for a 350 also. Is that the reason it is running like crap feeling like it is towing a trailer with no wheels only after it gets warm? i am planning on the Gen III swap as soon as i get some cash to buy the parts but i need this thing to run right until then. What do y'all think? Thank you!

The knock sensor, ESC, PROM, and maybe the injectors(?) are different for a 305 and 350 as I recall. Put 305 parts on there and it will probably run much better. Which I wouldn't want to do in your situation either, unless I had the parts already. :(

That's a fair number of differences, but unfortunately the 305's were running higher compression, with crummy heads, so were very prone to detonation. With the timing curve undoubtedly being different between the 305 and 350, it's entirely likely that the 305 is detonating with the 350 timing map, the knock sensor is picking it up, and retarding timing as much as possible, which will absolutely kill power.

Might not net you entirely what you want, but you COULD try retarding the base timing a couple/few degrees, and see what happens. Probably won't help across the board, but if you know exactly when your loss of power occurs, you should be able to see if that helps in that area.

It does seem kind of odd you weren't getting an ESC code before, have you looked that code up in the service manual (link is in my signature to them) to make sure that something like excessive knock/wrong module, etc can cause it, as opposed to solely something like an electronics failure or wiring issue?
 
DAMN thats alot! i don't remember the actual code it just said ESC module problem. I guess I'm reporting the issue wrong. Ive had a computer issue plenty of times giving a check engine light before just not killing the performance like this until lately. when the CEL shows up it did nothing bad for the truck and it drove fine. And it goes away when i turn it off for a minute and then turn it on again ( shutting it off at harbor freight for stuff). When i put this thing together it ran fine with no issues. I haven't felt any kind of knock or detonation. Is there a way to tell if the computer is for a 305 or 350?
 
ECM is generally not engine specific. You have to take the PROM plate off (two small bolts on one "side" of the ECM, should be able to see the plate with the ECM in the holder) and then on the PROM holder usually you will see the "BCC" which is three or four letters...like "ABYF". Then you can google that BCC and there will likely be a result that tells you engine/trans combo it came from.

If you know the ECM was original, and no one swapped out the PROM inside, sometimes (if it's still there), the BCC will be printed on the sticker on the outside of the ECM.
 
Ok. Looked that up and found the computer is for a 5.7. I actually have 2 that say they are for a 5.7. AMUR and ASDU. Now....how can i fool the computer into thinking its a 5.0? new (different) computer?
 
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Ok. Looked that up and found the computer is for a 5.7. I actually have 2 that say they are for a 5.7. AMUR and ASDU. Now....how can i fool the computer into thinking its a 5.0? new (different) computer?

Just the PROM actually, but that only solves the timing/fueling issue. Still won't help with the knock sensor(KS)/ESC, nor injector size, if they were different. Can't recall if 5/5.7's shared the same injectors or not.

ECM alone isn't likely to solve the issue. Might help, but since the KS is different, it could still cause issues. IIRC, knock sensor is designed around a frequency, which changes with bore size. I've heard about deadening them by using an extension to get them a bit off the block, or moving it to somewhere like the head, but since the KS is made for your application, it would be better to just get the right one. Anyone on here dumping a 305 should have the right parts. Maybe even thirdgen.org.
 
ok, the 6.0 swap had to be pushed back due to funds so Im planning on replacing all those parts with 305 parts. The ECM is another issue. Cant find one online to purchase and there are about 30 other BCC prom identifiers to try and find one in a junkyard. Do any of you know where i can get one before i go hunting?
 
Unfortunately all I can think to do, if you don't want to hunt for one (which would admittedly be tough to find in the 'yards methinks) is see if you can find the GM part number for the correct one.

The parts manual available at the link in my signature might list the application/part number you need. Then just enter that part number into google, and if multiple gm dealers show it as discontinued, try entering the part number into ebay's search. It doesn't seem that the TBI 305 was a very popular combination. They existed, just seems most TBI trucks were 350's.
 
What is the fault code for ESC? Does timing automatically get dropped back when an ESC fault is set? That would explain the poor timing. Have you had a timing light on it?
 
What is the fault code for ESC? Does timing automatically get dropped back when an ESC fault is set? That would explain the poor timing. Have you had a timing light on it?

There are probably a couple, guaranteed they are in the service manual.

It wouldn't surprise me if an ESC code drops timing back, but GM did things differently depending on which ECM/EFI they were using, and someone who has dug into the code of the '747 would have to answer the timing question.

IIRC, the ESC/knock sensor are both specific to displacement/application, one or the other being incorrectly paired, or the wrong pairing based on displacement, could be leading to false knock sensing.
 
ok, replaced everything but the computer PROM ( still can't find one yet) and the knock sensor. It ran great for longer but still eventually threw the SES light. Haven't ran the new code yet due to scheduling but i will this weekend and let y'all know.
 
I'm stretching my memory but I think the injectors were a different part number. We had an issue about 18 years ago or so where we had numerous tbi injectors on the bench and mixed them up between trucks and ended up having to swap them around until they came out of the same vehicles they were originally in.

I just can't remember the motors involved
 
The diy-efi site may still be up, but the link here doesn't work: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/478500-305-tbi-injectors.html

Apparently the 305 and 350 injectors are different according to those guys. I can never remember that stuff lol.

Parts manual in my signature should tell you, if the part # is different for a 305 and 350 injector in 1987, then you have your answer. :)
 

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