Engine Mount Question

[Fordum]

OK, first of all, not my truck. Second, its been handled, so no pressure.
But I just wanted to ask.......
Friend of mine has a shop. I hang around there a lot, and know everybody there.
His main mechanic has been building some kind of small truck in his spare time. The body is an S10, not sure of the year. Probably 2006 or so.
Had a six cylinder in it, I think.
2WD.
He built a 350 from the block up to go in it. Last Saturday, he was going to drop it in. I happened to be there doing some computer work on their system.
I had some slack time waiting for a backup to finish, so I wandered out to see how it was going. He had run the lift that it was on up, and was looking up under it with a stunned look on his face. One interesting thing I noticed, it was a two post lift with the arms, and he had had to tie the truck to the front arms to keep it from tipping over backwards with no engine.
It seems he had gotten to the point where he was going to change the engine mounts, and had hit a snag.

Each mount was held on by 4 bolts. He hit the first one with his impact, and it broke loose and spun. But, did not come out.
He tried the next one, same thing.
By looking up through a small space next to the suspension arm, he discovered that they had nuts on the back sides inside the frame.
We raised the truck up and down, looking for some way to get to those nuts. There is no way. To even touch them would require taking the front suspension off, springs and all.
Everything there is in good shape, and he did not want to go to that much trouble right then. I suspect he may have to replace the springs later due to the difference in weight, but right then he wanted to get the engine in.

After I left, he finally cut the bolts off, and found some the same size. Cut the heads off them, and welded them in as studs.
When I was there yesterday working on my filter problem, he had the engine in place.

My question is: Was that necessary, or was there some way we just did not see to get a wrench on those nuts?
I know car companies do stupid stuff, just consider what is involved in changing heater cores in many cars and trucks.
But did they really fix it so you have to take the front suspension out to replace the motor mounts?
My comment as I was leaving, was that I guess they figured by the time those enclosed mounts wore out, the front suspension would be worn out too, so might as well do both.
Or, more likely, they wanted you to buy a new truck.

As they say, Asking for a friend.....

 

[SpeedlabDan]

Hmm I wonder if they were just pressed in that later got weak and action from the impact made them let go all the way. Doesn't seem right on a serviceable part to have to remove suspension parts to change them out

 

[Fordum]

I didn't look at the parts after they fell out when he cut the bolts. If they are still around I will look. But he hit two bolts on one side, and another on the other and they all spun as soon as they got loose. Never even got loose enough to rattle.

These motor mounts were unusual looking to me. They were solid steel housings with holes drilled in the sides. Inside the holes you could see threads. I assume that there is rubber inside the housings, but none is visible. It looks like even if the rubber rotted and fell out, the mounts would still be quite solid, since the bolts went through the holes in the sides of the housings and were not much bigger than the bolts.
Maybe GM considered them lifetime mounts and did not think anyone would replace them. They certainly seem like a mount failure would not cause the problems that an exposed rubber mount would.
If they are still around, I'll take a picture.
I still feel like most folks here already know what I am talking about. Of all the things I have worked on over the decades, motor mounts is not on the list.
The few times I might need motor mount work done, I just took it to a shop. I was never equipped to pull engines. My main field was electronics and other type engineering.

 

[imiceman44]

I didn't look at the parts after they fell out when he cut the bolts. If they are still around I will look. But he hit two bolts on one side, and another on the other and they all spun as soon as they got loose. Never even got loose enough to rattle.

These motor mounts were unusual looking to me. They were solid steel housings with holes drilled in the sides. Inside the holes you could see threads. I assume that there is rubber inside the housings, but none is visible. It looks like even if the rubber rotted and fell out, the mounts would still be quite solid, since the bolts went through the holes in the sides of the housings and were not much bigger than the bolts.
Maybe GM considered them lifetime mounts and did not think anyone would replace them. They certainly seem like a mount failure would not cause the problems that an exposed rubber mount would.
If they are still around, I'll take a picture.
I still feel like most folks here already know what I am talking about. Of all the things I have worked on over the decades, motor mounts is not on the list.
The few times I might need motor mount work done, I just took it to a shop. I was never equipped to pull engines. My main field was electronics and other type engineering.

I believe what you are referring to is clamshell design motor mounts where the outer shell holds a piece of rubber inside with a metal sleeve in the middle of it.
So yes when the rubber is dead it could move around inside but never come out.
That's a typical gm motor mount.
GM does have some crazy things going on like this with hard to access bolts and I wouldn't be surprised if it is stock.
I don't know if there was a change between my 97 and the 2003, I will check.
Mine is 4wd but motor mount should be the same

 

[diesel4me]

I've never seen the underside of an S-10 at my friends shop as far as looking at where the motor mount bolts come thru on the bottom side...knowing GM they probably are a "mother" to get at,IF they can be accessed at all without major disassembly of the suspension..

But I can attest they do SUCK to get at on a G-10 van like my '81 ,I spent a whole day at a salvage yard trying to get the motor mount bracket that bolted to the cross member,I had to jack the van up several times and stack rims under it,it was lying in dirt with no rims ,and I had to get it at least 18" up to fit under it,to try and get at the nuts on the bottom side..
I think C series square bodies use the same front suspension/cross member as the van too,so they are just as difficult to get at..

The only van there like mine was an '86,and the engine was pretty much stripped down to the block--no heads or manifolds in the way,so getting it up high enough to lay under took me over an hour,by then I was exhausted..ten minutes later an employee comes by in the loader--"Gee--I'd have picked it up for you if you asked me !"--but I was too beat to walk 1/8 of a mile back to the front gate..figured they would charge more if I asked for assistance too..

I needed the motor mount brackets off a V8 van,mine was a straight six originally and I was putting a SBC in it..only the right side was a problem,the drivers side mount bracket lined up fine...so now I had to hunt for V8 brackets..(the piece the rubber clam shells bolt to between them and the cross member..

I fought for over an hour trying to get the 4 bolts out,as soon as I loosened them they just spun,and being alone,I had to use vise grips on the bolt heads to hold them still,and I had to borrow a socket u-joint swivel to use a ratchet on them--three out of four came off hard every thread of the way,and I'm sure they put some blue lock tite on them factory..
The 4th bolt proved impossible to hold still,and I had to resort to using a cold chisel and hammer ,which turned out to be the best way,it took all of 6 hammer blows to shear the bolt off,I should have just chopped all of them off...from above!..

Then after a hot day of toiling in 85 degree direct sun,I finally had both motor mount brackets in my hand,I went to the office,paid the guy (charged me $15 because he felt bad I had such a hard time getting them off!)--and then I took them home--only to discover the '86 G-10 I got them from was NOT the same as my '81,despite looking the same--GM redesigned the steering box and motor position after '83,just different enough so they were useless to me---so I couldn't USE them at all!..

I ended up making an adapter plate to bolt the V8 clam shell to the straight six bracket on the right side,using 1/4" flat plate--the holes were only like a half inch "off"..should have just done that to begin with,it took all of 15 minutes to make the adapter plate..

I see many stupid "engineering" designs at my friends shop--last week he said it took him a whole afternoon and part of the next morning just to install a new alternator in some kind of Nissan SUV!--had to remove so many things,it seemed retarded..of course along the way there are fragile sensors and parts that can shatter if you look at them wrong too,this often leads to having to replace one that didn't survive being removed or bumped against..

He had a Chrysler Cirrus in there one day,for a "coolant leak"--customer said he had to refill the radiator & overflow bottle daily..
It had a V6,and after some inspecting he found the coolant was in the crankcase,the oil was mayonaise and over 2" above full,and it was steaming out of the tail pipe--"head gasket" he assumed,told the guy he'd be better off buying a used engine with low miles than mess with one that had anti-freeze in the crankcase..They rarely last long after being repaired..

The guy took it to another shop,who said "its the water pump--we see a lot of these in the boneyard,because the water pump is behind the front cover INSIDE the engine!..it costs more to get to it and replace it than the car is worth!--most people just scrap them ..what a wonderful design..disposable..

 

[Wes Harden]

Never had the pleasure of doing an s10, thanks for the heads up.

I've done plenty of G vans, and they aren't fun. But you can get sockets on the nuts, through the springs, it might take a different set up and every wobbly extension, universal joint in your tool box but it can be done.
The welded in studs will prevent the mounts from being changed with motor in the truck. Won't be able to lift it high enough trans still connected.