engine oil level and white smoke

[wazzabie]

Recently I rebuilt the carb and replaced the oil in the 78 350 K5. The engine had not run in years. When I started it up it put out constent white smoke. Also had high rpm.

I checked my oil level and it is over 1-1.5 inches over full. I've never had it that full before. I should have checked it before starting.

Anyways I'm wondering if the white smoke was from the high oil level. Next thing when I have a chance will be to remove some oil.

 

[Fordum]

Well, its a thin line between white and blue.

White smoke that disappears quickly is usually steam from water. If you have a coolant leak into the block, it would make the oil read high and make white smoke as it ate your bearings.
Check it soon.

Overfull oil will get sucked up and burned with lots less damage, but you can do damage. The oil smoke is blueish, but can look white.

Don't try to suck some oil out or just remove some of it. Go ahead and dump what is in it.
The guarantee of damage if its got water in it, is too great to take chances.

Also, it could be full of fuel from a leaking fuel pump. The only difference between the bearing damage done by water and fuel, is that water can ruin the bearings just by sitting there as well as running, and fuel usually has to have the engine running to wipe the bearings.

Either way, dump the oil and filter and see what is going on.

 

[wazzabie]

Well, its a thin line between white and blue.

White smoke that disappears quickly is usually steam from water. If you have a coolant leak into the block, it would make the oil read high and make white smoke as it ate your bearings.
Check it soon.

Overfull oil will get sucked up and burned with lots less damage, but you can do damage. The oil smoke is blueish, but can look white.

Don't try to suck some oil out or just remove some of it. Go ahead and dump what is in it.
The guarantee of damage if its got water in it, is too great to take chances.

Also, it could be full of fuel from a leaking fuel pump. The only difference between the bearing damage done by water and fuel, is that water can ruin the bearings just by sitting there as well as running, and fuel usually has to have the engine running to wipe the bearings.

Either way, dump the oil and filter and see what is going on.

Great advice. I changed the filter and I'm sure I put only 5 quarts in it. I had counted the quarts before I put it in. I never checked the level because I know it was drained. I only test ran it for a few minutes.

So could it be reading high because there is water in the oil? That is the only thing that would make sense... or some how I mis counted. Also the oil presure was running high. THe needle was not centered but off to the right.

I think the best thing to do is drain all oil. If there is water it will float on the oil.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

The needle isn't supposed to be centered, that isn't how gauges are generally setup. More than half is typical.

As for the white smoke, as mentioned that usually means steam. IMO make VERY sure that there isn't water in the crank case and let it run for a while. I've done head gasket jobs that kept puking out white smoke for an hour or two after they were done just from residual water in the exhaust etc. Everything may fix itself with some run time, just make sure that the motor isn't going to destroy itself.

 

[wazzabie]

The needle isn't supposed to be centered, that isn't how gauges are generally setup. More than half is typical.

As for the white smoke, as mentioned that usually means steam. IMO make VERY sure that there isn't water in the crank case and let it run for a while. I've done head gasket jobs that kept puking out white smoke for an hour or two after they were done just from residual water in the exhaust etc. Everything may fix itself with some run time, just make sure that the motor isn't going to destroy itself.

After changing the oil I'm going to check the compression with an old guage I have. If there is a head gasket leak the cylinder should be low.

Also the engine oiul I used is from the mid 90's. I'm not sure if that matters.

 

[4X4HIGH]

Great advice. I changed the filter and I'm sure I put only 5 quarts in it. I had counted the quarts before I put it in. I never checked the level because I know it was drained. I only test ran it for a few minutes.

So could it be reading high because there is water in the oil? That is the only thing that would make sense... or some how I mis counted. Also the oil presure was running high. THe needle was not centered but off to the right.

I think the best thing to do is drain all oil. If there is water it will float on the oil.

Oil floats on water not the other way around. I would drain the oil (if there's water it will come out first) then once drained if no water comes out refill with the proper amount and check the oil level again. If water comes out (guessing there will be water) then it's time to pull the heads and have them checked for cracks and have them resurfaced if there are no cracks found and reinstall the heads with some Fel-Pro head gaskets.

 

[tRustyK5]

If you have water or coolant in the oil it should end up at the bottom of the pan...oil floats on water, not the other way around. Usually you should see an indication of that on the dipstick though. If it's a head gasket it also depends on where the gasket has failed. I've seen little white smoke, but major coolant in the oil on a few, and I've had the opposite where the oil looks really good, but one cylinder hydro-locks with coolant in it.

Generally you'll see a pair of cylinders with lower compression right next to each other.

Rene

 

[tRustyK5]

Sorry to repeat what you just said Scott, I guess you and I were replying at the same time.

Rene

 

[4X4HIGH]

Sorry to repeat what you just said Scott, I guess you and I were replying at the same time.

Rene

Once again, you're just a little too slow.

 

[tRustyK5]

I was writing a reply about an hour earlier but ended up on the phone with MTBLAZER89 instead of hitting the submit button...

It's all good, at least you got him the info he needed. I don't mind lookin' slow...

Rene

 

[Jessie James]

Smell the smoke. You will quickly be able to tell if it's water vapor or oil. Water vapor usually smells a little like gasoline - especially if you just started the truck. Oil ... well, it smells like oil, so don't take too deep of a breath!

 

[wazzabie]

So I let the oil sit for 24hrs. I'm not finding that any water had settled to the bottom. The oil smells like oil. It does not have any gas smell. I did not not pull the filter.

The engine only ran about 5min with the fresh oil. I'm thinking maybe I put in 6 quarts by mistake.

Anyways should I reuse this oil or put some fresh stuff in?

 

[Jessie James]

I would never re-use anything, personally. It's what, $20 to be sure you have good stuff in your truck that may save you from a $1000 rebuild?

 

[wazzabie]

I hooked up a cooling system presure tester. I found out that the auto part store loans these out. I got the presure up to 15psi and I could hear a hissing sound. There was a leak coming out from the upper radiator hose that made no sound. It sounded like the hissing was from the engine. I'm going to pull the plugs and use a scope to try and hear which chamber it may be coming from. I'm also going to run a compresions test. Also I found out that my radiator cap does not hold at 15 psi.

Getting into the engine is going to be a big task for me if I need to replace the head gasket. The 78 has federal emisions and no a/c. So every thing is easy to get to. I've never replaced a head gasket on a 350 before. My big concern will be to get the valves adjusted and the timing set correctly since the heads will be off the block.

 

[PapaSmurf]

nothing to worry about just did heads on my 71 350. you can take the entire top end of the engine apart with a good long handle swivel head 3/8 drive ratchet, a 1/2, 7/16, 9/16, 5/8 sockets and wrenches. to make getting the timing back on easily get #1 cyl to top dead center take off the distributor cap make sure the rotor is pointing at the cyl #1 terminal on the cap use a grease pencil mark the houseing of the dist where the rotor is pointing removed the dist clamp mark the dist body to manifold with the grease pencil and remove. reinstall lining up the marks takes a few tries to get it right. valve adjustment dosent get any easier a remote starter makes this task simple starting with cyl #1 as it should be on tdc compression. a zero lash adjustment with hydraulic lifters. run down the rocker arm nut while wiggling the rocker arm just as it feels snug and wont wiggle do a half turn on the nut rinse and repeat cyl #8 is next just follow the firing order untill its done. dont forget to torque your headbolts, intake and exaust to spec. inspect your headbolts before reusing to make sure they are not stretched out. use a quality gasket kit i used a Victor Reinz upper kit as i prefer their intake gaskets where the heads meet the block are extra thick so you dont have to use a little extra sealant. i have pictures of most of the process i can post them if you would like

 

[wazzabie]

nothing to worry about just did heads on my 71 350. you can take the entire top end of the engine apart with a good long handle swivel head 3/8 drive ratchet, a 1/2, 7/16, 9/16, 5/8 sockets and wrenches. to make getting the timing back on easily get #1 cyl to top dead center take off the distributor cap make sure the rotor is pointing at the cyl #1 terminal on the cap use a grease pencil mark the houseing of the dist where the rotor is pointing removed the dist clamp mark the dist body to manifold with the grease pencil and remove. reinstall lining up the marks takes a few tries to get it right. valve adjustment dosent get any easier a remote starter makes this task simple starting with cyl #1 as it should be on tdc compression. a zero lash adjustment with hydraulic lifters. run down the rocker arm nut while wiggling the rocker arm just as it feels snug and wont wiggle do a half turn on the nut rinse and repeat cyl #8 is next just follow the firing order untill its done. dont forget to torque your headbolts, intake and exaust to spec. inspect your headbolts before reusing to make sure they are not stretched out. use a quality gasket kit i used a Victor Reinz upper kit as i prefer their intake gaskets where the heads meet the block are extra thick so you dont have to use a little extra sealant. i have pictures of most of the process i can post them if you would like

That would be helpful if you shared your photos and process. If I do this I'm going to start a how to thread. Did you also change out the valve seal guides?

 

[PapaSmurf]

i apologize for the delay in a response i have been unusually busy. i had the heads rebuilt by a machine shop for me, they did hardened valve seats and new seals all around.

well some bad news my wife deleted most of the pics off the good camera she thought i had up loaded them already, i have some from my phone but not as detailed of a teardown i can try to fill in any gaps if needed.

starting the teardown

intake removed

getting ready to remove the rockers and pushrods

something that almost got me, gunk around the headbolts caused the socket not to sit right almost rounded off a few

heads in a box

block in truck

head casting number, find this and you can look up the specs if you need to order your own parts

rebuilt heads installed

thats all i have very sorry.

 

[bailey9r]

I think the best thing to do is drain all oil. If there is water it will float on the oil.

\



Oil floats on water, havent you ever seen a good WWII sub movie

 

[wazzabie]

PapaSmurf - Thank you for sharing the photos. How did you retime the engine and set the valve lashing?

i apologize for the delay in a response i have been unusually busy. i had the heads rebuilt by a machine shop for me, they did hardened valve seats and new seals all around.

well some bad news my wife deleted most of the pics off the good camera she thought i had up loaded them already, i have some from my phone but not as detailed of a teardown i can try to fill in any gaps if needed.

starting the teardown

intake removed

getting ready to remove the rockers and pushrods

something that almost got me, gunk around the headbolts caused the socket not to sit right almost rounded off a few

heads in a box

block in truck

head casting number, find this and you can look up the specs if you need to order your own parts

rebuilt heads installed

thats all i have very sorry.

 

[PapaSmurf]

for timing i had marked the dist. body for cyl #1 so i could aim the rotor at it took a couple trys to get it right was off a tooth or 2. valve lash i adjusted starting with cyl #1 as it was already TDC ran the nut down while wiggleing the rocker just as it stopped wiggleing one half turn on the nut and its good, i followed the firing order (conveniently stamped on my intake) turning the engine over by hand without sparkplugs installed untill it was done. theres a couple ways i set timing i use a good timing light and an accurate vacuum gauge connected at the intake manifold (i use the brake booster port) i use the light to make sure the dist is set right and get it near 8 deg. b4 tdc i then use the vacuum gauge and advance the dist untill the vacuum drops slightly and i move it back so its at peak vacuum lock down the dist and hit it again with the light this usually puts my engine specifically at 10-14 deg b4 tdc and it runs perfect. snappy throttle ect. in a fresh build id suspect some carb tuning will be required at this point and that a whole new subject