Factory push pull steering with hydro assist?

[K85 Octane]

I searched, I swear I've read about it somewhere but wasn't interested at the time, so it never sank in.

Is it ok? Does it work? Seems like it shouldn't have a problem. Just not sure.
This is for my cousin. He absolutely needs to keep the front sway bar, might even do a rear down the road, but wouldn't mind a little hydro assist.

Unless he gets a really nice tax return or extra $$$ later on. Might end up with a dedicated wheeler and diesel tow rig

 

[cybrfire]

I can see no reason it wouldn't work just fine.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

If the front suspension has very little travel, it can work.

The problem is the same problem that suspension faces without crossover anyway, when the suspension is twisted up you won't be able to turn one way or the other.

With the stock steering setup, when you get the suspension twisted up, you won't be able to turn the way you want to, even if the steering wheel is turned all the way to lock (this is one of the reasons crossover steering became so common).

The problem with hydro assist and the stock steering system is travel. The stock steering is governed by suspension travel (i.e. why you lose steering control when the suspension flexes) but the hydraulic system doesn't know/care what the suspension is doing. So, if you have very little suspension travel, you can get away with it. If you have any reasonable amount of travel without crossover, something has to give and that's usually the frame.

 

[cybrfire]

If the front suspension has very little travel, it can work.

The problem is the same problem that suspension faces without crossover anyway, when the suspension is twisted up you won't be able to turn one way or the other.

With the stock steering setup, when you get the suspension twisted up, you won't be able to turn the way you want to, even if the steering wheel is turned all the way to lock (this is one of the reasons crossover steering became so common).

The problem with hydro assist and the stock steering system is travel. The stock steering is governed by suspension travel (i.e. why you lose steering control when the suspension flexes) but the hydraulic system doesn't know/care what the suspension is doing. So, if you have very little suspension travel, you can get away with it. If you have any reasonable amount of travel without crossover, something has to give and that's usually the frame.

That's a good point. Hadn't thought about the steering running out of travel due to geometry and the hydraulic assist continuing to push.

 

[454Sub]

We get away with it on mudtrucks. But they are correct on the geometry. That being said, it works fine on the road, and in the mud all day.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

We get away with it on mudtrucks. But they are correct on the geometry. That being said, it works fine on the road, and in the mud all day.

We've sold a bunch off assist kits for stock type steering trucks, but they really need minimal suspension travel. Mud trucks usually fit that bill.

 

[454Sub]

Yep, most mudtrucks are lucky to have 5in of travel overall.

 

[ktmoutfront]

I would think the assist would cause too much stress on the stock steering when flexed. If you are holding the steering wheel straight when the wheels would normally move upon flex, the assist would not let it steer. Major binding may occur.

Just my 2c.

 

[K85 Octane]

This is on a K20 longbed, turned K30. About 6-7" of Superlift...lift. It sees offroad duties but not like those I set my truck up for. More mud and trails.

Main reason for the sway bar: On road manners. "flying to the river with my boat or dunes with my toyhauler must continue to be easy"



>yes, he has disconnects and machined some spacers for the frame/bar mount. Might be interested in a link style bar.

 

[Stomis]

Run crossover and install a torsion style sway bar, problem solved

 

[Blue85]

Nothing will bind, but with the axle twisted up you run out of steering gear range with push-pull steering. You have to remember that the gear and the ram are sharing oil. So oil flows whenever the valve is opened (torque on steering wheel) and goes to either/both locations. It's the mechanical link that determines how much fluid goes to which. The pressure is similar in the ram and the gear (some loss in the hoses and fittings) so the force being exerted is proportional to the piston surface area. In the ram, this is a direct force on the tie-rod, so you only need to know the length of the knuckle to know the steering (rotational) force. For the gear, you need to know the ratio of drive from the piston to the sector shaft (sometimes is variable, based on position), the length of the pitman arm and (effective) length of the steering arm. In short, I don't know who is applying more steering force, but anecdotal reports imply it is the ram.

In this respect, it doesn't matter if you have push-pull or crossover steering. The system still steers. The problem comes when something reaches the end of travel. Ideally you hit the knuckle steering stops. If the ram or gear reaches limit before that, you put undue force into the system that doesn't help steering, but only stresses components. Since the ram is mounted on the axle, it's always going to remain within its range of motion. The gear however, is plagued by the axle articulation, which adds steering input of it's own. With the box on the stops and the ram still pushing, it will try to torque the box off the frame. I suppose a concientious driver could work around this.

 

[454Sub]

Honestly, with 7in of Superlift springs, I would wager you couldnt even tell without the swaybar. Or could tell very little. I mean you wont be able to run the Nascar Craftsman Truck Series with it, but it would pull a boat just fine.

And it will torque the box off the frame eventually, no question about that. Or if that ram keeps pushing, it will either tear the ram off, or possibly bend the tie rod, whichever point is the weakest.