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Fell in love with a 'Mog.........axle setup!!!

Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

you aren't getting it. A flipped 60 would drive the wheels backwards. If you flip a front 60 over it will drive in reverse when your trans is in drive. If you need to have the theory of what happens when you have 2 gears meshed together and only 2 I refuse to help you. Aka thats whats going on in the Portal boxes, one axle shaft driven gear, one gear driving the hub, and the two are meshed right together. Oiling issues are easy to overcome, if someone tells you other wise they are scared /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. You could take a front 60 and flip it I'd guess. Don't see why not.
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

Here is a link to a post I did a few weeks ago. Link

A 404 mog is much stronger then a dana 60, Bar None.
Don Henry(Taradon) said he broke his 404's doing rear steer burnouts with the 49's.
Robert Bryce (Hulk,Ryeguy) hooked up to Corey's Chev in the Top Truck Challenge. He had the Hulk hopping like a mutha(with the 44's and 472 caddy) and didnt break. But corey's Dana 70 rear(I believe he had brand new 35 spline axles in it, 39.5 boggers) broke one of his Axle shafts. I dont think he was hopping that much either.
I dont think John Reynolds has broke his portals either. I think he has broke a 9inch pinion though.
I bet most of the competition guys are standing the vehicle straight up and smokin the tires when they break. I personally dont think the portals help very much in comps anyways. Doesnt seem like they hit the diffs to much.
Daniel Tibus from Killer axles.com told me he has not had one portal break that he has sold. I say that to show that the portals dont break that often.
I have a 6.2diesel with an overdrive with 42's and the truck doesn't drive all that bad at high speeds. The worst part is the front driveshaft u-joint angle. I hope a dual c/v will take care of that. Narrowing them would get rid of that problem by taking 6 inches off the short side to make it 6inches offset instead of 3inches.
You can use either a 1350 or 1410 u-joint with Killeraxles pinion conversion.
Swapping to the disc brakes gets rid of the problem with the portals getting to hot. Using one of the laser temp guns, my 205 gets 10-15 degrees hotter then the portals do.
Pinion clearance is pretty tough to get without narrowing them. Mine has 5inch springs in the front and it gives it just enough clearance. Daniel Tibus' truck has stock height suspension on his Chevy with the narrowed 404's.
The gearing is really the only downside I have seen with these axles. But I can still cruise at 65mph ok.


Strength issues is always a strong debate. But some people seem to use a dana 44 and 38.5's with no problem. But others kill their dana 44's with 33's.
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

Hey Brett,

Thanks for chiming in!....I was hoping to hear from you /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

I don't know why it took me so long to appreciate what the 'Mogs have to offer clearance-wise and strengthwise. I guess seeing them in person is what finally convinced me how cool they are.

So did you narrow your axles on your install? I'm still unclear about the WMS-to-WMS measurements on the 404s. Tibus actually lists two different numbers on their site the "regular" 404 and the "KillerAxles" 404.... he shows a 44" center dimension normally and a 38" dimension on his axles. I guess that might be the offset you're referring to?

Interesting to hear that the "short" side is the one that gets shortened even MORE. I guess that's to help get the pumpkin futher away from the oilpan by moving it more to the driver's side?? So you say that 6" is removed from the axletube....wouldn't that mean that the total pinion offset would end up at 9"????

Boy, I'd sure like to see some more detailed pics of that axle setup, especially with regards to how that front pinion interracts with the oilpan, and to see any other interference points?? I'll go re-check your gallery shots, but I'm probably going to be bugging you a few more times before this whole thing is over!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Maybe on my way through Utah in the early part of July we could arrange to meet somewhere? I'd love a chance to meet you and see your new rig "in person"!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

When they shorten it 6 inches, it only moves the centerline of the axle 3 inches. So that makes the total offset 6 inches. The WMS to WMS is 74.5 inches on a stock axle with Killeraxles disc brake conversion. Thats what I have. But with the stock hummer wheels, I am narrower then when I had the dana 60 and 15x10 eaton beadlocks with 3 1/2 inch backspacing. I believe the hummer wheels are 7 1/2 inch backspacing. I will have some better pics in a couple of days. I will post up when I have them.
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

[ QUOTE ]
When they shorten it 6 inches, it only moves the centerline of the axle 3 inches. So that makes the total offset 6 inches. The WMS to WMS is 74.5 inches on a stock axle with Killeraxles disc brake conversion. Thats what I have. But with the stock hummer wheels, I am narrower then when I had the dana 60 and 15x10 eaton beadlocks with 3 1/2 inch backspacing. I believe the hummer wheels are 7 1/2 inch backspacing. I will have some better pics in a couple of days. I will post up when I have them.

[/ QUOTE ]



What about highway rpms? I ran a few numbers and it's not looking pretty....

I'm only planning to run 38.5" tires, and even with an O.D. tranny (I was planning a 4L80E) I'd be at 3800RPM @ 75MPH!

The solution (as someone has already figured out) is to run a 203 rangebox BACKWARDS to effectively create a 50% overdrive unit. With a setup like this my highway RPMs would only be ~2500 @ 75MPH.... a lot better. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Here's the new question:

Original setup: 4L80E -> 203 -> Doubler Adapter -> NP205
Potential setup: TH400 -> OTT Adapter -> OD203 -> 203 -> Doubler Adapter -> NP205

Anyone else see the problem??? /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif If it were going into a Suburban it might not be bad, but I think I'm going to run out of space. Granted the 4L80E is a LOOONG tranny, and the TH400 is substantially shorter....but I don't think that the length savings will make up for the "extra" 203 and the adapters to make the OD system work. I'm thinking too that the Mog pinions are really long compared to a 14BFF....so that rear output is practically going to connect directly to the axle!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif

Any chance that the owner of "The Hulk" (That one on the BC4x4 site) is a member here?? I'd like to know more about the oiling of the backwards 203 and whether the gears were run on their "coast" sides or if the solution required new internal gearsets.....???
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

I believe his name is RyeGuy on here, and maybe PBB too. XACT? Memory is one of the first things to go... or was that something else... eh? Where's my cane dagnabit!!!

Anyway, the reversed range box fits in just like a doubler (that you don't need) so it's close to the same as a 4L80 + doubler. Shouldn't be too terribly bad...
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

[ QUOTE ]
I believe his name is RyeGuy on here, and maybe PBB too. XACT? Memory is one of the first things to go... or was that something else... eh? Where's my cane dagnabit!!!

Anyway, the reversed range box fits in just like a doubler (that you don't need) so it's close to the same as a 4L80 + doubler. Shouldn't be too terribly bad...

[/ QUOTE ]


Except, I still want the DOUBLER too.... so that means I want a transmission, TWO 203's and a 205......and a long front driveshaft and a really teeny rear driveshaft.
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

RyeGuy sold "The Hulk" to a (very) local guy near me who goes by the handle "Carnage Kenny" from both past and present experiences. He managed to blow up one of his rear portals recently. Although im yet to see it, the hulk now resides about 30 minutes from me.

The problem with flipping a center section is that you'd then be driving on the coast side of the gears, would you not? given the R&P now see's 1/2 the load, its still a concern if the whole idea for swapping these in is brute strength.
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

[ QUOTE ]
driving on the coast side of the gears

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, they spin the shafts backwards instead to match the mog
I cant figure out why they dont just run the Mog gears and matching lockers

Don runs his truck with both TCs in low and the sm465 in 3rd or 4th for most of the hard stuff, by the sounds of it
so the doubler idea in addition to the OD might be an idea
you would have to factor in the auto vs manual difference
the main reason he runs in those gears is the gear spacing for trying to shift under load IMO

I just watched him compete in a small town local event
the traction of those 49s is UNBELIEVABLE
they made him run as the last truck, 55th
the hill climb was pretty much destroyed by all the nitrous'd, high rpm, Bogger, auto trucks
with the tires aired down to 8-10psi he didnt even spin the tires
sucked his 461BBC down to ~4000rpm and made it look like a parkade ramp
the crowd was not impressed as it looked boring
previous trucks were digging down at least 6" on successful flights and he didnt even disturb the silt
fastest truck was just into 9secs and I do not recall exactly but he was in the top 5 maybe 6th place

they homied him and disqualified him from prize contention due to the grooved tread blocks on his tires

still cant believe the traction in that thing
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

/forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif, I knew I should have bought that parts mog.
It was a matching 421 in non-running condition for $700.

Mine has a top speed of 37mph on the govenor of about 3400 rpm. IIRC it looked like the axle tubes were stamped 9.3:1 /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif. Who needs a crawler box, I need double overdrives!
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

In my truck I am around 3200rpm at 75 mph. Which seems high, but they run the 6.2's in boats and cruise at 3500 rpm for up to 5 hours. Plus if you are looking at Unimogs, your usually not looking for streetability. But its always nice if it does drive on the street good. I would have no problem driving mine 5 hours on a trip to Moab. Its just the wear on the 42's that scare me. /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

Brett,

How much bump travel do you have in your front suspension? I'm trying to gauge how worried I should be about the pinion clearance relative to the oilpan.

My intended setup is NOT going to have a lot of suspension lift (maybe 4 - 6") so with a soft suspension I think I'll be hitting the oilpan if I don't plan ahead. The other alternative is to convert over to a drysump oiling system to save a little space (and to make sure my wallet stays LIGHT!) /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif


/forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
 
Re: Fell in love with a \'Mog.........axle setup!!!

I will have about 4 inches total up travel. Maybe less, but I do have about 6 inches when It articulates. I can still clearance my oil pan to get a few more inches, just too lazy to right now.
I have a 4 inch spring in the front but the truck sits 3 inches higher then when I had the 8 inch and the 60. Some of the lift is from the bigger tires though(39.5 to 42's)
If you are really worried about the clearance you can move the diff over. Daniel from Killeraxles suggested using a 411 housing and lengthening the long side. That way you can use a stock 411 short side axleshaft. But then you will have to buy a more expensive long side. I think they are around $300
If I ever go to coils in the front, I will probably do that. /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif
 
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