vortec
1/2 ton status
My jeeper buddy says that he's seen kits to make a D44 into a FF. Do they have anything like that for a 14blt SF?
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FF kit for 14blt SF?
- Thread starter vortec
- Start date
Nope, not that it would make any sense anyway.
vortec
1/2 ton status
The only reason it makes sense is that I could have one for free. I don't have a free FF 
. but the bright side of the SF is less weight and better clearance.
. but the bright side of the SF is less weight and better clearance.
sandawgk5
3/4 ton status
The only reason it makes sense is that I could have one for free. I don't have a free FF
How is it free? Do you not have to BUY the kit?
Dik
vortec
1/2 ton status
no, not a free kit. free 14Blt sf
so you're saying there IS a kit? you found one?
No, not so much a kit but getting custom axles made was the deal killer. After that you'd need 14BFF hubs and spindles to do it even close to economically.
Then don't forget grafting on the spindles.
sandawgk5
3/4 ton status
no, not a free kit. free 14Blt sf
Dik
Can you find a plethora of posts on here that have the 14SF failing from abuse?
I've got one, had been paying a lot of attention to that, never noticed anything near the failures on the 14SF's as I did the 10/12 bolts.
What's your intention? 14SF is beefy, the fact that it's an SF has little bearing on how well it will work in a given applicaiton.
I've got one, had been paying a lot of attention to that, never noticed anything near the failures on the 14SF's as I did the 10/12 bolts.
What's your intention? 14SF is beefy, the fact that it's an SF has little bearing on how well it will work in a given applicaiton.
If there was a kit it would be REALLY expensive just like the FF dana 44 and 9" kits are.
I can appreciate that you want to save weight and clearance (don't we all) but don't get hung up on the full floating thing.
The torsional force that a shaft can sustain has absolutely nothing to do with the weight upon it. i.e. full floating shafts are not inherently stronger than semi-floating ones.
Its very possible (and I believe) that most full floating shafts are made of a different alloy steel than most semi float shafts (I swear I saw something showing the alloy of stock 14 bolt shafts being closer to most aftermarket shafts).
What I'm getting at is this: don't get hung up on the full floating thing. Full floating axles are designed to take the weight off of the axles and transfer it to the bearing hub to increase the weight capacity of the axle. If you are towing heavy loads, full floating axles are where its at. If you are trying to keep from breaking shafts it doesn't matter (other than the material the shafts are made of).
And before anyone gets up in arms about this, I do have a FF14 bolt in the rear of my truck
I can appreciate that you want to save weight and clearance (don't we all) but don't get hung up on the full floating thing.
The torsional force that a shaft can sustain has absolutely nothing to do with the weight upon it. i.e. full floating shafts are not inherently stronger than semi-floating ones.
Its very possible (and I believe) that most full floating shafts are made of a different alloy steel than most semi float shafts (I swear I saw something showing the alloy of stock 14 bolt shafts being closer to most aftermarket shafts).
What I'm getting at is this: don't get hung up on the full floating thing. Full floating axles are designed to take the weight off of the axles and transfer it to the bearing hub to increase the weight capacity of the axle. If you are towing heavy loads, full floating axles are where its at. If you are trying to keep from breaking shafts it doesn't matter (other than the material the shafts are made of).
And before anyone gets up in arms about this, I do have a FF14 bolt in the rear of my truck
so could i be confident in my 10b rear with after market shafts in it? im only fond of mud really and the axle is already geared and posi, id like to keep it. i was thinking of buying a 14sf just for the tire size capabilities but that leaves my front. anyways...
atho
1/2 ton status
how about you start your own thread then...
I would want a 14bff over a sf just because A) it's FF, which to me means 2 wheel bearings per side instead of one B) no wheels falling off from broken shafts and C) any aftermarket traction aid is more $$ for a SF than FF.
If you can get it free, go ahead, but try to find a FF. You probably will eventually want one, anyway.
Generally aftermarket semifloat shafts are made of 1XXX alloy steel instead of 4340 or 300m (much stronger) like most aftermarket full floating shafts. If somebody makes 4340 shafts for a 10 bolt then you probably won't break shafts because the weak point will be moved to the carrier, ring and pinion or housing.
vortec
1/2 ton status
the main thing about FF that i find attractive is the wheel staying on if an axle breaks. some guy's jeep snapped a shaft (d35, IIRC) and clogged up the trail for everyone. we had to do some weird stuff to get it up the rest of that hill and back to a decent spot. we used my rachet tie-downs to strap a large tree branch against the wheel to keep it sort of on, and we had to reset that a few times. FF wouldn't have had that problem.
I don't wheel hard enough that i am consistently concerned about breaking an axle, but since i'm running a 10-bolt, it's a real possibility. I was looking at this as a potential oportunity to get the best of both worlds. more strength, and FF peace of mind without sacrificing too much clearance or adding too much weight. I'm still really leaning towards taking the SF, anyway. definitely better than my 10 bolt. If i don't take it, it's staying on the truck and going to my little cousin when she turns 16, in a few months. a tiny little chick in a 3/4 ton chevy would give me a laugh, though.
Again nobody makes a full floater conversion for any Chevy axles (there may have been a 12 bolt one at one point). Even if they did the dana 44 full floater kit is over $700.
If you are really looking into high clearance, strong, low weight full floating axles than you would have to go with something like a 9" center section with 14 bolt spindles/hubs (which many people have done, its just custom and $$)
You break a 14SF axleshaft, props to you. 
Seriously, get the axle, its free, use it, if it breaks, you are out nothing. (of course I'm guessing it's the wrong ratio?) Search the posts, the 14SF is a HECK of a lot stronger than the 10 bolt, and is not even close to being on the same level of strength, even though both are SF.
Seriously, get the axle, its free, use it, if it breaks, you are out nothing. (of course I'm guessing it's the wrong ratio?
) Search the posts, the 14SF is a HECK of a lot stronger than the 10 bolt, and is not even close to being on the same level of strength, even though both are SF.
You break a 14SF axleshaft, props to you.
Seriously, get the axle, its free, use it, if it breaks, you are out nothing. (of course I'm guessing it's the wrong ratio?
28 spline 10 bolt = 1.196"
30 spline 10 bolt = 1.292"
33 spline SF14 bolt = 1.417"
30 spline FF14bolt = 1.5625
Therefore, the SF14 bolt is 45% stronger than a 30 spline 10 bolt and 97% stronger than a 28 spline 10 bolt.
The FF 14 bolt is 48% stronger than a SF 14 bolt, 114% stonger than a 30 spline 10 bolt and 191% stronger than a 28 spline 10 bolt (almost 3 times
)All of this is assuming the shafts are made of the same thing and have the same taper and length. I believe that 14 bolt shafts are made of a higher grade alloy than SF shafts (I swear I saw it documented somewhere but have been unable to find it).
Anyway, yes, SF 14 bolt shafts are significantly stronger than 10 bolt shafts but only 2/3 as strong as a FF 14 bolt (assuming they are made of the same alloy). I think you don't see many broken SF14 bolt shafts because there aren't many people that run them, especially with big tires
If you haven't already snapped a 10 bolt shaft, then I wouldn't be too worried about a 14SF, unless you just roll the truck around on the 10 bolts.
The 14SF has the same axle tube diameter (and thickness I believe) as the 14FF, a ring gear that is 1" larger than the 10 bolt (no idea about the pinion, probably proportional) and axle bearings that are ginormous compared to the 10 bolts.
I don't believe I've heard of a single 14SF axleshaft failure. Even if there are half as many people using the 14SF as 14FF's, I've still heard of one or two 14FF axleshaft failures, and a couple of hub bearing issues IIRC. With the strength increase over even a 14SF, you'd expect to hear of at least a couple 14SF failures.
No question the 14FF is the ultimate when comparing the "big 3" of 80's GM truck axles, but it sure seems like you'd have to work awfully hard to cause a problem with a 14SF.
Most everything I can think of for the 14SF is here:
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135125&highlight=14sf and not just because I started it. Lots of people contributed info.
The 14SF has the same axle tube diameter (and thickness I believe) as the 14FF, a ring gear that is 1" larger than the 10 bolt (no idea about the pinion, probably proportional) and axle bearings that are ginormous compared to the 10 bolts.
I don't believe I've heard of a single 14SF axleshaft failure. Even if there are half as many people using the 14SF as 14FF's, I've still heard of one or two 14FF axleshaft failures, and a couple of hub bearing issues IIRC. With the strength increase over even a 14SF, you'd expect to hear of at least a couple 14SF failures.
No question the 14FF is the ultimate when comparing the "big 3" of 80's GM truck axles, but it sure seems like you'd have to work awfully hard to cause a problem with a 14SF.
Most everything I can think of for the 14SF is here:
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135125&highlight=14sf and not just because I started it. Lots of people contributed info.
I don't think I have either.
I'll bet you its closer to 10 to 1 and the trucks that are abused the hardest are likely using the FF. I don't think I would be comfortable with a SF 14 bolt in the rear of my truck.
Regardless, I agree with you that most people won't have any trouble with a semifloat 14 bolt. The shafts are almost twice as strong as the 10 bolt shafts they are likely replacing
Oh yeah, if you know you are going to be super hard on your rig, don't start out breaking parts, get the beef up front so you don't have to worry.
On the other hand, if you *think* the 10 bolt is weak, but in your driving haven't broken it, then odds are, no way you are going to break a 14SF. If you've got some plans in the future for driving that is going to be super hard on the axles, go 14FF.
I guess going full circle, the amount of money spent on a 14SF full floater kit (if they were made) would be better spent on a 14FF, or 9" setup if you were concerned with clearance and what not.
I was concerned with clearance when I broke the 10 bolt (who doesn't want as much as possible with no penalty?) but the reality so far has been that in my driving, differential clearance has been no issue at all compared to departure angle and the transfercase hanging down.
On the other hand, if you *think* the 10 bolt is weak, but in your driving haven't broken it, then odds are, no way you are going to break a 14SF. If you've got some plans in the future for driving that is going to be super hard on the axles, go 14FF.
I guess going full circle, the amount of money spent on a 14SF full floater kit (if they were made) would be better spent on a 14FF, or 9" setup if you were concerned with clearance and what not.
I was concerned with clearance when I broke the 10 bolt (who doesn't want as much as possible with no penalty?) but the reality so far has been that in my driving, differential clearance has been no issue at all compared to departure angle and the transfercase hanging down.
