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Finally got my membership! and a few more questions for you about lockers

Dabba

Dabba

1/2 ton status
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
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Location
Long Island, New York
First let me say it was really worth it for the membership. Thanks ck5. MY questions are pretty simple. Will a detroit locker fit in my stock gm 10 bolts? The main thing my truck will encounter is sand, lots of sand. (i live on long island) Some snow/ice. And mild trailriding/wheeling and some small mudholes whenever i encounter them. I wont be mudbogging just trying to get my truck dirty :). Is the locker worth it? Im prob gonna be running 33'' mud rovers with a 4 inch lift eventually. Should i do front? Back? both? I have 3.08s stock now and if i need to with the new tires i may go to 4.11s. In spring im gonna check the junkyards for completed axles, but if can grab any im just wondering if i can use the lockers in my stock chevy axles. Thanks. Also, cheapest source?
 
You really need to consider what a "locker" will do. A differential is designed to adjust the power transmitted to the opposing wheels automatically. When you lock the rear end, you completely eliminate the differential effect, and force both wheels to have the same amount of power regardless of the difference in power requirements. So the question is, "is that really what you want?" I wouldn't recommend a true locker for anyone not involved in drag strip racing, myself.

Obviously, a true differential won't do you, because one wheel will think it's got the greatest need, since it's slipping on the sand, and will suck up all the torque spinning like crazy. But you know that or you wouldn't have posed the question. And a standard positraction rear end has a bunch of clutches that mostly generate heat and little particles of metal in the oil as they wear, without contributing a whole lot to the traction algorithm.

My suggestion would be to look at the Detroit TrueTrac, also from Eaton; because it uses a system of helical gears to lock up, rather than clutches, it works more positively and with much less heat and wear than a conventional positraction, and will retain the differential effect for when you're not actually going in a perfectly straight line. There is a model that slips right into the 10-bolt rear, but not for the front; if you get one from someone who knows what he's doing, you can get one made for the rear but with the internals swapped around so that it's reversed for front end use in 4wd applications.

Main thing is to keep the gear ratio the same, front and back.

See:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/PerformanceProducts/Products/Differentials/index.htm

and

http://drivetrain.com/

and

http://www.auburngear.com/
 
posi or posi-trac (or however it's spelled), was/is GM's name for their type of limited slip differentials. the word is very overused and applied to things that it isn't.

a detroit locker would be a good addition to your rig. lower gears would be good too.

put in the 4.10s, the locker rear, and go out and use the truck. see what you thhink. change the things you don't like.
 
I know regearing is gonna cost me about 200 each axle and a detroit lockers gonna be around 400. If i can get to the junkyard this spring and find some 3/4 gm axles with the 4.10s in em ill go for it and do the axle swap. But if its too much money ill just regear, im still wondering if the locker will fit in my puny 10 bolts? I dont think id really need to upgrade the axle, i wont be wheeling her that hard, its just if i can find em for the same price i figure why the hell not?
 
Dabba said:
I know regearing is gonna cost me about 200 each axle and a detroit lockers gonna be around 400. If i can get to the junkyard this spring and find some 3/4 gm axles with the 4.10s in em ill go for it and do the axle swap. But if its too much money ill just regear, im still wondering if the locker will fit in my puny 10 bolts? I dont think id really need to upgrade the axle, i wont be wheeling her that hard, its just if i can find em for the same price i figure why the hell not?
Click to expand...

Yes the locker will fit. You can buy locker's for 10 bolt's
 
Thank you. I know 3/4 ton axles cost about 200, and so far i found the detroits for 400, anyone find them cheaper? Also, not to sound like a newb but i am, whats the difference between like 14 bolts and dana 60? Interchangable names? Dana 60 is the front end equivelent of a 14 bolt rear? Im just looking for 3/4 ton axles for front and rear so. Sorry:doah:

Edit: Im assuming dana is the front end? And also d60s are the equivent of ton and 44 is 3/4? or am i screwed up?
 
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IIRC:
1/2 ton= dana 44 or 10 bolt (6 lug either way) front, 10 or 12 bolt rear (depends on years)

3/4 ton= dana 44 front (8 lug), 14 bolt rear (semifloater (9.5rg) or fullfloater (10.5rg)

1 ton=Dana 60 front, Dana 70 (DRW) or 14 BFF (SRW or DRW) rear

The different axles occurred in different years. Now, of course, I could be wrong but, this list sounds about right to me!;)


All the 3/4 ton pickups of our body style that I have seen had 14 BFF rearends but ,that may not be a constant. Also, all the 3/4 ton burbs and newer light duty 3/4 ton (whether they be 6 or 8 lug) pickups I've seen have had semifloaters. The fullfloater is better!;)
 
Pick ups and suburbans were available in 3/4 ton, pick ups were the only one tons.

A 60 is a front or rere axle, much more popular in the front, the 14bff is as strong if not stronger, and a hell of a lot more common, they can be found on 3/4ton pick ups also.

and D44 is a 1/2 and 3/4 ton front they are just as strong as a 10 bolt front, With light wheeling you DO NOT need a 60, hell you could probably stay with the 10's, wait till you brake something so you know what you can do to a 10b, you may never brake one.

Edit there are also other variations of the 14, srw drw and van width
 
^ What he said! I agree, keep the 10 bolts. If you are only planning on 33's and light wheeling, I'd keep the 10 bolts and put a rear locker, IMHO. You can always upgrade later if ya have to!
 
Thanks for the input, i guess redoing the diff would be easier than a full swap. Just one more noob question, whats the difference between a full floater or semifloater? Im just starting to learn of the innerworkings of an axle and i figure if i come across a steal ill grab it. Im just worried ill have the axle and itll end up needing minor repairs and i dont even know much about them yet. as i side note i have a haynes book, they good? or do i need something that gets more specfic? As i mentioned in my other posts im pretty new at working on cars, but i feel more comfortable with this thing than my o3 civic. And its not my DD so i can afford to take my time and learn. Plus im not paying for labor haha. Ill prob end up keeping the 10 bolts but you never know. what semifloating and full floating? anything else i should know? I got one suggestion for locker in the rear, i heard having the front locked is a vast improvment over open, worth it? How do you identify axles? I can pretty much just count the bolts of the covers but im wondering about the dana and 14 compared to 14bff? and i know bolt counting does not work on front end right? Thanks for the patience with then nub haha
 
A Hyanes book is ok, if your new to working on the truck it can help, but don't rely on it too much.

a semi floaters axle shafts are held in by 'C' clips, a full floaters are bolted on, and there for stronger and better, If you snap a shaft in a semi, the axle and tire will fall out, full float will stay in.

this will help ID the axles http://coloradok5.com/axleguide.shtml

other then that read up on peoples threads you can get real pics so you know what to look for.
 
Simply put:
semifloater-the axle shafts support the weight of the vehicle and transfer power to the wheels.
fullfloater-the axle shafts simply transfer power to the wheels.

Easy way to identify: fullfloaters have a hub that sticks out with bolts on it. In the case of 14bff and Dana 60/70 ff the hubs have 8 bolts.

I personally would get a rear locker before I'd get a front locker. I put a rear locker in the Grand Cherokee that I had, and it made a big difference vs the limited slip I had in the rear of the S-10 Blazer I had. For my Jimmy project, I'm going with a Detroit locker rear and an ARB front.

Darkshadow: thanks for posting the link to the axle guide, that's a good listing! I didn't realize we had that, good stuff!
 
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ARB is selectable right? Why would you want your front end open when your in 4x4 sometimes? Just curious because i want to hear everything before i spend the moneys. Thanks for the link, ill search around for axle iding threads. What are the stock 10 bolts? semis? (havnt hard the tires off yet so i havnt looked)
 
ARB is a selectable spool, if it is locked it is solid, where "lockers" will still brake open.

a spool or welded front is a bitch to turn, so a quick unlock will make a tight trail a lot easier to navigate.
 
darkshadow said:
ARB is a selectable spool, if it is locked it is solid, where "lockers" will still brake open.

a spool or welded front is a bitch to turn, so a quick unlock will make a tight trail a lot easier to navigate.
Click to expand...

Exactly!-couldn't have said it any better myself!

Dabba: Yep, 10 bolt rearend is a semifloater.
 
How do you lock/unlock the ARB locker? Like how much of a pain in the nuts is it? Is it a super complex system or is it simple like my locking hubs? Again im gonna look around, if i can find 3/4 tons for the same price or less than regearing then ill do that. Oh yeah, how can an axle be 1/2 and 3/4 ton? Does that just depend on the suspension as well as the axle? Thanks again. :bow:

Edit: Holy **** ARB look expensive with everything! I heard something about with detroits people only locking one hub in the front? That actually work or will that destroy your axle?
 
ARB's are pneumatically operated spool, push button to lock/unlock. Kinda complicated to set up (and pricey) but, easy to use.

The same axle being 1/2 or 3/4 ton. Well, sometimes it's complicated (like a 44HD where the diff housing is reinforced with ribbing and the axletubes are bigger and it is 8 lug or a 14 bolt where the ring gear size can differ and there are fullfloaters and semifloaters). But, it can be as simple as 8 lug instead of 6 lug. Oh yeah, suspension plays a part too, 3/4 tons have stiffer springs for more load capacity than 1/2 tons.

IDK about the lock one hub thing (I'm sure some people do it and love it but,), seems like a terrible idea to me since you'd get weird handling with one wheel getting power all the time regardless of traction and one wheel getting no power regardless of traction. I'd just run it open!
 
blowedupmotor87 said:
IIRC:
1/2 ton= dana 44 or 10 bolt (6 lug either way) front, 10 or 12 bolt rear (depends on years)

3/4 ton= dana 44 front (8 lug), 14 bolt rear (semifloater (9.5rg) or fullfloater (10.5rg)

1 ton=Dana 60 front, Dana 70 (DRW) or 14 BFF (SRW or DRW) rear

The different axles occurred in different years. Now, of course, I could be wrong but, this list sounds about right to me!;)


All the 3/4 ton pickups of our body style that I have seen had 14 BFF rearends but ,that may not be a constant. Also, all the 3/4 ton burbs and newer light duty 3/4 ton (whether they be 6 or 8 lug) pickups I've seen have had semifloaters. The fullfloater is better!;)
Click to expand...


You could also get a front 10bolt in 3/4 ton IIRC
 
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