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First post.....did I get screwed?

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RedNeckCummin

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First post, not much of a introduction just feeling pained . Bought my first K5 a few weeks ago, shortly after I bought it I'm driving down the road and a wheel falls off... I decide right then that I'm going g to go ahead and get 1 ton running gear under her. I'm in the middle of having a d60 and 14 bolt put in my k5, I was going to do this myself but being a trucker and being on the road so much i decided to let a local shop handle it. When I dropped the Truck off they quoted about 10-12 hours labor which I thought was fair. I bought the pair of axles from my local salvage yard for $1500 cash and took them to the shop. I gave the shop $800 down with the assumption the bill was going to be about $1600. Today I talked to them and they said they had to do a little welding to get the high steer kit to work (the axles I found at the junk yard had high steer on them and disc conversion so i was happy to have all of that from a junk yard find) they also said the drive shafts needed to be shortened which i assumed would be the case, they also said the driveline angles are insane and will not work and the have to do new perches to align everything correctly, with all of that said and done and a alignment the total I owe now is $2900 that's on top of the $800 I put down and the $1500i have in the axles bringing the total of my axle swap to $5200......am I the only one that feels like that's insane?? Or is this about what others have paid going through a shop
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RedNeckCummin said:
First post, not much of a introduction just feeling pained . Bought my first K5 a few weeks ago, shortly after I bought it I'm driving down the road and a wheel falls off... I decide right then that I'm going g to go ahead and get 1 ton running gear under her. I'm in the middle of having a d60 and 14 bolt put in my k5, I was going to do this myself but being a trucker and being on the road so much i decided to let a local shop handle it. When I dropped the Truck off they quoted about 10-12 hours labor which I thought was fair. I bought the pair of axles from my local salvage yard for $1500 cash and took them to the shop. I gave the shop $800 down with the assumption the bill was going to be about $1600. Today I talked to them and they said they had to do a little welding to get the high steer kit to work (the axles I found at the junk yard had high steer on them and disc conversion so i was happy to have all of that from a junk yard find) they also said the drive shafts needed to be shortened which i assumed would be the case, they also said the driveline angles are insane and will not work and the have to do new perches to align everything correctly, with all of that said and done and a alignment the total I owe now is $2900 that's on top of the $800 I put down and the $1500i have in the axles bringing the total of my axle swap to $5200......am I the only one that feels like that's insane?? Or is this about what others have paid going through a shop
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I agree that it is alot of money and on the high side but when you break it all down with the shafts, steering perches, etc I dont necessarily think it is unreasonable either. I'm in the middle of a similar swap and it does take more time than you would think.
 
Shop labor rate x time=$$$$
What is the labor rate? Chances are most of your cost is being chewed up by labor alone. That being said, factor in the axles you put in there need adjustment to run right. I can tell you right now a 14bolt in a k5 with a slip yoke 241 which yours should have will require a cv rear shaft, pinion angle adjustment and possibly a sye. Having just gone through this myself on my 91 I know it will need it. So i spent $550 for a slip yoke style cv shaft, $40 on shims and a lot of sweat equity getting done myself. Had I done it my shop the cost would have shot up due to the labor.

Here's an example:
Alldata labor time to swap out a stock axle on a 91 k5 is 10.8 hours x our shop rate of $96/hr and you are at $1036.80 just to remove and replace. That accounts nothing for fab work to make the crossover steering work.

Rear axle swap (again stock swap) book time is 7.3 hours @ $96/hr is $700.80. that don't include cutting perches off or adapting the rear discs.

Bottom line is, most guys on here have swung a axle under one of these in well under the time the book allows so we save that cost. A good shop should have got close with an estimate up front. Big swaps like this always will run into snags that drive up the cost. They should notify prior to moving on when snags come up and discuss the added cost to the bill.

At this point I'd ask for the itemized bill and have them go over each charge line by line. You are kinda behind the 8-ball by authorization of the work without getting a good estimate up front, but still have them go over the bill in detail and look over their work prior to making the final payment. If they got crappy looking welds on the fab work they did, now is the time to get it corrected. You are paying a lot and the work should be done right.
 
ZooMad75 said:
Shop labor rate x time=$$$$
What is the labor rate? Chances are most of your cost is being chewed up by labor alone. That being said, factor in the axles you put in there need adjustment to run right. I can tell you right now a 14bolt in a k5 with a slip yoke 241 which yours should have will require a cv rear shaft, pinion angle adjustment and possibly a sye. Having just gone through this myself on my 91 I know it will need it. So i spent $550 for a slip yoke style cv shaft, $40 on shims and a lot of sweat equity getting done myself. Had I done it my shop the cost would have shot up due to the labor.

Here's an example:
Alldata labor time to swap out a stock axle on a 91 k5 is 10.8 hours x our shop rate of $96/hr and you are at $1036.80 just to remove and replace. That accounts nothing for fab work to make the crossover steering work.

Rear axle swap (again stock swap) book time is 7.3 hours @ $96/hr is $700.80. that don't include cutting perches off or adapting the rear discs.

Bottom line is, most guys on here have swung a axle under one of these in well under the time the book allows so we save that cost. A good shop should have got close with an estimate up front. Big swaps like this always will run into snags that drive up the cost. They should notify prior to moving on when snags come up and discuss the added cost to the bill.

At this point I'd ask for the itemized bill and have them go over each charge line by line. You are kinda behind the 8-ball by authorization of the work without getting a good estimate up front, but still have them go over the bill in detail and look over their work prior to making the final payment. If they got crappy looking welds on the fab work they did, now is the time to get it corrected. You are paying a lot and the work should be done right.
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I think that time is to replace axle HOUSING.

Book time on a complete assy is 3.5
 
black dawg said:
I think that time is to replace axle HOUSING.

Book time on a complete assy is 3.5
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That sounds more reasonable to me. I did a 14bff conversion on my 1/2-ton on a dirt floor with very few tools and had less than Rob's 7.3 hours invested in the swap. Though I probably spent that much more time replacing bearings and brakes. It doesn't hafta be a long job, it's the modifying and fab time that will add up in a hurry.
 
Holy crap, I swapped the 10 bolt front out of my stepper and had a Dana 60 back under it in about 3 hours. And that included swapping 4 new bushings in the leafs. About and hour out, about an hour for the leafs and about and hour to roll that heavy 60 beotch back in. This was all with basic tools and two floor jacks while the truck was on jack stands.

And I was frustrated it took me that long!
 
Well, after looking again alldata does not have a complete assembly remove and replace time. So yes, the bare housing time includes set up of the diff/gears and reassemble the outer knuckle and hubs. It inflates the time, but it does illustrate the issue a shop would have in using standard labor time guides to estimate a job that is not standard.

Ideally the way this job should have gone down is by the shop putting together an estimate for the work requested. Then reviewing any updates with the customer as issues come up that will require an add to the bill. Telling him they could swap the axles for an agreed price and then stuffing him for another $2900 without prior approval would be borderline illegal in most states. I'm not saying the price the guy is getting stuck with isn't on the mark or inflated, but how it's been presented could considered out of the norm. I totally get the reasoning behind farming out the work, but Labor hours stack up. Add the non-stock changes to Crossover steering and rear discs and crappy driveline angles just require more work to get the parts to work right. It's going to increase the bill. Think this way, crossover steering requires a 2wd steering box or re-working the 4wd box with 2wd parts. That has to be part of the bill. So more labor gets tacked on for the time to swap the steering gear out. Would that be part of a normal axle swap? No. But it shows the more changes you make the bigger the bill will inflate to.

It would be interesting to see the bill for sure. What the total labor cost/hours was and the part totals.
 
How ready to go were the axles? Did the shop need to do new seals, wheel bearings, lockouts, u-joints all that adds up quick. The sticker shock is very understanding though.
 
Since there is a lot of custom fabrication being done, the shop does not have to go by "book rate", and can charge you "hourly rate". This is why having others do your custom fabrication is not worth it, unless you are rich and have money to throw away, because you end up spending more than the vehicle is worth in hourly labor rate. I am sure someone will argue that the shop has to charge you book rate on some of the work, but their argument does not matter. What matters is what the shop doing the work has to say about it. They are the ones you have to convince to charge you less for their work.
 
The driveline angles were insane and the perches needed to be moved? Does this include the front? Ask the if they're cutting and turning the Cs to keep the caster correct if so....price sounds nuts to me. Worst case scenario you'd be looking at a day up front and half a day out back. Parts bill dependant on what kind of shape your existing stuff was in.
 
You really do need to see a break down of everything that was performed before making a final judgment. Big difference if they just bolted in the new axles and had to do a few tweaks versus rebuilding them, doing cross-over and high steer, new driveshafts, etc....

Regardless, this is why I don't have shops do work since even simply tasks can turn into huge bills. I've pulled my Blazer into the garage bay after work at 5 p.m., completely removed the front D60, drilled out a broken spring perch stud, and put it all back together and was home by 8 p.m. I will say that in general doing a 1-ton swap is mostly bolt in stuff, and even disc brake conversions and cross-over and/or high steer is pretty much all bolt on stuff also.
 
Many many more details needed.

Did you have a2wd steering box?

Were there frame cracks?

Did the completely rebuild and shorten your driveshafts?

Did they put it all together to realize it wouldn't work and then tear it apart to install shims and charge you for all of that?

That seems high to me.

Need more info
 
I don't know why I've never gotten any notice of comments on this post I figured everyone just skipped it. After having everything broken down and explained to me I am more satisfied with the price then I was before. There was alot more detailed when I returned home and was able to go over everything with them in person as were looking at the truck. Yes both dribeshafts had to be rebuilt, they got everything put together and were horrified by the driveline angles so it all had to come back out and be adjusted the rear axle was a one ton axle the perches had to be moved and shimmed. The frame was fine (as good as a gm frame can be, boxing kit is on the way) the steering box had damage from my accident so there were repairs there. Lots of little things that added up fast, so while the price shocked me initially I am happy with the work and it now seems reasonable.
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