First try at 3 link

[toomany]

I made pretty much this identical post in my build thread (http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3496913#post3496913), but figured there might be more traffic/brains out here. Plus it can't hurt to have a thread just for this.


So I have decided on doing a 3 link w/pannhard for the front end. I have never designed a link suspension, so I have no idea where the numbers should land. Been reading for quite awhile about the design and theory behind it.

This is my fist attempt at coming up with something. First time using any of the link calculators. Now, it's 16* outside and I haven't been too motivated to go out and get any real exact measurements yet, so these are sure to change some. The only real measurements I've taken have been from my K5. I just want to see if I'm heading in the correct direction or setting myself up for failure.

At this point, I'm thinking I'd like my lowers to attach to a new transmission crossmember. Good or bad idea? Or I could do them right off of the frame, most likely under it. Who has done what and how did it work? What would you have changed?

Some things to keep in mind. Truck will be a daily driver, mild trails, sand dunes. Shooting for 3-4" of lift over stock 4wd height (clear 35's with very little trimming).

First crack at it, after figuring out what each value does. I want to say my links will end up shorter, (around 39" maybe?) was just using an eyeball measurement.

Critique my numbers and don't hold back on any advice...I can use all I can get. Sometime this weekend I'm going to make an effort to get the truck in the garage and up in the air at my ideal ride height, will pull some real numbers and decide on a final wheelbase.







This one I raised the link mounts a little.

 

[toomany]

From my reading around the internet, this is what I've come up with for the basics. On the right track?

- try to make your links parallel when viewed from the side
- make them as long as you reasonably can
- make them as flat as you reasonably can
- make the roll axis as high as you reasonably can
- vertical separation should be 6" or more. More especially for more horsepower and/or bigger tires.
- make the triangulated portion 40 degrees or more for decent lateral control.

 

[ryoken]

subscribed.

I know that doesn't do much for you other than interest in the subject...

 

[toomany]

subscribed.

I know that doesn't do much for you other than interest in the subject...

Any and all interest is good. There is a ton of info over on Pirate, but you have to wade through it to find out who actually knows what they are talking about.

 

[ryoken]

yeah, I have zero patience for those guys and completely rely on my brethren here...

 

[blazinzuk]

Too much to type out on my phone I will get back when I am at the computer

 

[Blazooki]

copy this or just buy it..its hard to beat for the price..If you have never done anything like this before its good to leave the math to someone else..the install is gonna be enough work to keep you happy.

http://www.chassisunlimited.com/product/link-suspension-kits/3-link-suspension-kit-e.html

don't attach any link mounts to anything thats "removable"..like a transmission cross member

you gonna want your links longer so they stay flat during cycle.

think about drive shaft and exhaust room. it gets really crowded on the passenger side with the upper link mount, drive shaft and exhaust pipe all in the same area.

panhard bar will hit the factory cross member. plan on investing in the ORD cross member or building a new one.

plan on high steer..to keep the drag link and panhard bar as close to parallel as you can so your bump steer will be minimal. plan on hydro assist

plan on new front upper and lower shock mounts and longer brake lines for sure.


I just read your other thread... I would do 52 inch front springs with a DIY b52 kit and ORD FUSH kit on that truck for the front if all I wanted was 3-4 inches and 35's. way cheaper, way less design/fab surprises, way easier to fab up, better street manners and it will flex out anything you need.

 

[FOR MUD]

Any and all interest is good. There is a ton of info over on Pirate, but you have to wade through it to find out who actually knows what they are talking about.

Tell me about it...After about an hour my brain starts to spin...Plus I always get side tracked over there.

I just read your other thread... I would do 52 inch front springs with a DIY b52 kit and ORD FUSH kit on that truck for the front if all I wanted was 3-4 inches and 35's. way cheaper, way less design/fab surprises, way easier to fab up, better street manners and it will flex out anything you need.

Kinda my thinking too.....Then link the rear.

 

[Stomis]

Man its been and while, and Blazin and Greg will pretty much be able to guide you through this.

You need to get your steering in and set to the correct height so you can match your panhard angle to it to prevent bumper steer.

 

[toomany]

copy this or just buy it..its hard to beat for the price..If you have never done anything like this before its good to leave the math to someone else..the install is gonna be enough work to keep you happy.

http://www.chassisunlimited.com/product/link-suspension-kits/3-link-suspension-kit-e.html

Hadn't seen that one yet. I was looking at Ruffstuffs kit.

don't attach any link mounts to anything thats "removable"..like a transmission cross member

After thinking it over, I decided to attach to the frame. There are a lot of forces coming from the links.

you gonna want your links longer so they stay flat during cycle.

think about drive shaft and exhaust room. it gets really crowded on the passenger side with the upper link mount, drive shaft and exhaust pipe all in the same area.

I know about having longer links keeps things flatter during movement. Will be running a drivers drop 241 and a high pinion Dana44. Upper link will be on the passenger side. If I need to, I can run the drivers side exhaust around the front of the oil pan and "y" into a single pipe (actually may do anyway for noise reasons).

panhard bar will hit the factory cross member. plan on investing in the ORD cross member or building a new one.

plan on high steer..to keep the drag link and panhard bar as close to parallel as you can so your bump steer will be minimal. plan on hydro assist

plan on new front upper and lower shock mounts and longer brake lines for sure.

An ORD or making my own cross member for the engine was planned. Steering will be crossover, have a flat top passenger side knuckle waiting to be machined. I'm aware of trying to keep them parallel for good handling. Springs, I'm still up in the air on. Either some Bronco coils or coil overs. Regular coils/shocks would work and be cheaper up front. But....coil overs would allow me to tune the ride quality in better. I do know about and have done shock tuning, racing dirt bikes, so it's just trial and error to get a baseline and tweak from there.

I just read your other thread... I would do 52 inch front springs with a DIY b52 kit and ORD FUSH kit on that truck for the front if all I wanted was 3-4 inches and 35's. way cheaper, way less design/fab surprises, way easier to fab up, better street manners and it will flex out anything you need.

I have thought about 52's (or even custom stock length) up front....may even still go that route if I feel that I'm getting in over my head. It's basically bolt on and go. Okay, maybe not that easy, but compared to links/coils it is. But I don't learn anything doing that. It's been done before. I want to do something different and learn in the process. If I totally fail at it, well I can always admit I was wrong, cut the bad off and do the easy thing with leafs. Between the pile of parts I have....I could probably do a leaf swap without having to buy anything.

No reason a link suspension can't have good street manners. I'm betting there are more Jeeps/trucks out there driven by soccer moms that think there vehicle drives just fine. I'm after ride quality, fallowing the manufactures footsteps and going to coils in the front.

How many other people on this forum have taken completely functional/driving rigs and blown them apart to make it into something they want? Something they feel is there ideal vehicle for what they want to do with it.

Tell me about it...After about an hour my brain starts to spin...Plus I always get side tracked over there.



Kinda my thinking too.....Then link the rear.

You've got to put some blinders on when reading over there. You search for one thing, link design, and end up spending 6 hours reading about some guys tow rig rebuild.

Leaf springs up front have been done, lots. I have driven/owned enough of these trucks to know what I want to change. I have more issues with how the front rides than the rear.

Man its been and while, and Blazin and Greg will pretty much be able to guide you through this.

You need to get your steering in and set to the correct height so you can match your panhard angle to it to prevent bumper steer.

I know there are a number of people on here who have good knowledge/experience with what works and doesn't. Hoping they will contribute some.

I haven't done anything with the pannhard in the calculator yet. I know I'll need to get the drag link situated before I can lock it down. Before I can do that, I'd like to get my axle and slide it under the truck. I'm more of a visual/hands on learner. I can stare at the computer all day and not get anything from it. But look at the two parts sitting next to each other and it will just click.

 

[ktmoutfront]

One thing to remember is that all the calculating in the world does not mean it fits the truck. There is always give and take.

I have mine tired to a removable transmission mount. It is real beefy. Has Never moved, cracked or shown any sign of failure. It has been hung up a few times while wheeling.

If your truck is not going to be flogged hard or ran at high speeds through rough terrain, stick with quality leafs and back them up with really good shocks. Will make it a much better daily driver.

 

[toomany]

One thing to remember is that all the calculating in the world does not mean it fits the truck. There is always give and take.

I have mine tired to a removable transmission mount. It is real beefy. Has Never moved, cracked or shown any sign of failure. It has been hung up a few times while wheeling.

If your truck is not going to be flogged hard or ran at high speeds through rough terrain, stick with quality leafs and back them up with really good shocks. Will make it a much better daily driver.

The thought of "sticking it where it fits" has crossed my mind. But that'd probably handle like ass. Like to try and get it somewhat correct.

At this point I'm 60/40 for links/leaves. It's not really the design/build that scares me, it's the budget aspect. Starting to add up the costs of things. Of course there are items that will be the same either way (cross over, engine cross member, driveshaft mods, brake parts). A set of leaves, some shackle hangers and I'm in business.

I don't know...going to think about it while I gather parts that will work either way. No real work is going to happen for a while.

 

[Babaganoosh]

I don't think Wade is saying stick it where it fits. I think what he is trying to say is the perfect calculation on the program doesn't always fit the truck. These trucks have goofy narrow frames and you have to give and take on the calculator to match the truck.

Depending on what you are using for shocks, proper tuning will go a long way.

 

[ktmoutfront]

I don't think Wade is saying stick it where it fits. I think what he is trying to say is the perfect calculation on the program doesn't always fit the truck. These trucks have goofy narrow frames and you have to give and take on the calculator to match the truck.

Depending on what you are using for shocks, proper tuning will go a long way.

Yep. I think Ben has heard this before.

 

[Babaganoosh]

I sure have.