Fixing my 10 bolt myself but need some advice

[jamacee]

After going cross eyed in the search engine and running out of time I need to ask y'all this question.

I was towing a medium uhaul trailer in my 89 sub from Ga to Chicago and blew my yoke seal. I win the sucker award for not knowing enough about my own truck and its axles. I was away from my home, tools, manuals, etc. and needed to have it fixed at a shop. 900 bucks later I have this awful pit in my stomach feeling I got reamed.

Now truck is back and Ga. and my drivers side rear outer seal blew. I took it to a mechanic and he is saying about 400 if I just get the offset bearing. My sub is sitting now b/c of my lack of money and axle experience.

I have the service manual for this truck - I need to fix this myself - I need to know how to work on my own truck

Here are my questions:

- Section 4B1 of service manual REAR AXLE -Just to be sure the 10 bolt is a semi floating 8 1/2 RG This would help to know which section to start from - Geez I feel like a idiot but am willing to learn

- Can I get by with a slide hammer and bearing remover from a place like O'Reilly's? Where do I get the bearing and seal installer? Can I get by (and I'll use this term loosely) beating the bearing back in with a socket large enough?

- To get the axle out I have to take the diff cover off right? The manual says I need to remove from the carrier a lock screw, then diff pinion shaft, then the c-lock from thrust block, and then the shaft slides out right?
(You gotta do all this on the trail if you snap a shaft????)

- What else am I missing? Going ahead and say screw it and just swap in 44/14bff's???

I just think I am upside down in this axle now. Been looking through CL all day today for axles and people are asking a lot for them around here. Seems not matter which way I turn I am going to drop some money i.e. cash for tools I don't have or cash for a used axle or pay someone to do it and be done with it?



- Do I need a press to put new bearing back in

 

[496truck]

Yes, GM 10 bolt 8.5" ring gear should be the axle you have in the truck.

I would question whether or not the bearing needs to be replaced.

Chock the front wheels.
Jack up rear axle and place on jack stands.
Remove the wheel and brake drum on the side you want to repair.
Remove diff cover. You'll see the diff, spin it till you see the cross shaft and the bolt that holds it in, it will have an 8mm hex head.
Remove the bolt, hopefully it doesn't break.
Slide out the cross shaft.
Push in on the axle, it will slide in enough for you to remove the c-clip.
Now you can pull out the axle shaft.
Alright, you've been working for 30 minutes, time for a break...
Back to work....
Inspect the shaft for wear from the old seal. I bet it's fine.
Pop the old seal out of the axle tube.
Inspect the bearing in the axle tube. I bet it's fine.
Pop in the new seal.
Put some light grease on the sealing surface where it rides on the axle shaft.
Reinstall the axle, c-clip, cross shaft, bolt, diff cover, gear oil, etc...

 

[jamacee]

Thanks Brian!

I think it is the bearing though and this is why...
It sounds like the brake shoes fell off inside the drum and are rattling around, This is just the sound not what actually happened. It certainly sounds like there is some metal on metal action going on.

This is where I hope that there isn't damage to the axle or anything else and the bearing just went on me.

Then I would hope again that I could do a offset bearing instead of needing to do a new/used axle shaft.

Your advice is very helpful so now I just need to tear it apart and see whats what.

Now about the bearing punch/set tool - can I get by with a large socket or do I need the tool specified in the GM service manual? These bearings aren't pressed in right?

 

[gonefishin]

X 2

 

[496truck]

A slide hammer set should get the old bearing out of the axle tube.
Put the new bearing in the freezer for a little while, seriously. It'll make hammering it in a bit easier. Use some gear oil to help it go in too. A large socket and hammer should do the trick.

Unless you've already taken it apart and found out otherwise, there is a good possibility the rear brake shoes have come apart and are rattling around inside the drum. Definitely seen that before. A leaky axle seal will eventually get gear oil on the drum which transfers to the shoes, making them real "grabby". Couple this with old worn out shoes and they can come apart in pieces and sound like a cement mixer.

 

[jamacee]

That is exactly what it sounds like. A cement mixer. I am probably going to tear into it tomorrow. Here is to hoping that is all it is!

Thank you again for the advice. This site has always been really awesome resource with good folks!

 

[CGT80]

My vote is to fix the bearings and seals yourself. Do watch out for the bolt in the diff though, my uncle (professional mechanic who rebuilt my 10b), said they often break.

My 10b became too worn to drive as a daily driver (K5 blazer) while my pickup was waiting on a new engine. I was in a time crunch also, so I opted to have the 10b rebuilt. I drive my K5 as a weekend vehicle mostly on the street and on some dirt roads or very mild trails. It has 35" mud tires and a stock engine. It was a toss up on whether to do a 14bff or not.

Since I was able to get a new limited slip diff, 4.88 gears, axles and install kit mail order and then have a mechanic that works for my uncle do the work at the shop, I chose that route. A 14b would have needed lower gears and brakes and possibly a new or rebuilt diff not to mention finding one for a good price and doing the swap. I spent around $1300 in parts and around $300 or so for labor. We went with upgraded axles since most of the original axles that my uncle sees are damaged when the rear end is that worn. He didn't gain anything by having me upgrade, but if my axles were bad it would have cost time on the lift and I would have been without a truck even longer.

Your already in deep on this one. If you fix it yourself you should be ahead of swapping in a 14b right now, unless you just need or want a 14b. My pickup has a 14bff from the factory with 9 leaves in each spring pack (c20 camper special), It is an awesome and stout rear end, but it isn't the answer to every scenario.

 

[jeroundt]

Yes, GM 10 bolt 8.5" ring gear should be the axle you have in the truck.

I would question whether or not the bearing needs to be replaced.

Chock the front wheels.
Jack up rear axle and place on jack stands.
Remove the wheel and brake drum on the side you want to repair.
Remove diff cover. You'll see the diff, spin it till you see the cross shaft and the bolt that holds it in, it will have an 8mm hex head.
Remove the bolt, hopefully it doesn't break.
Slide out the cross shaft.
Push in on the axle, it will slide in enough for you to remove the c-clip.
Now you can pull out the axle shaft.
Alright, you've been working for 30 minutes, time for a break...
Back to work....
Inspect the shaft for wear from the old seal. I bet it's fine.
Pop the old seal out of the axle tube.
Inspect the bearing in the axle tube. I bet it's fine.
Pop in the new seal.
Put some light grease on the sealing surface where it rides on the axle shaft.
Reinstall the axle, c-clip, cross shaft, bolt, diff cover, gear oil, etc...

Good quick description!

 

[jamacee]

We got this Sub as our family wagon and I had delusions of grandeur to turn it into our family expo wagon....ah one day I thought to myself I will have a 4bt, nv4500, dual cases, 35's on 1 tons....

Reality is I just need the dang thing to drive. I have a 99 4runner as my DD and my wife drives the Burb since she doesn't have to go far most of the time.

I always wondered about upgrading the 10b and I know you can dump a bunch of money in it but my understanding was it was like polishing a turd.

I tow a little with it but on uhauls from time to time. I use it to haul stuff like carpentry tools and lumber from time to time. I also use it on road trips and camping since 2 adults, 11yr old, 3yr old and a 11 mo. old + 2 shepherds and gear can max out the burb. I would need a trailer if I tried using the yota.

At the end of the day I want it to run and I would like the piece of mind that I wrenched on my own rig and kept it running.

As far as money goes I am like just about everyone else right now...I don't have it. So the least expensive way of going about it is the way I want to go.

SO FIX IT I WILL COME HELL OR HIGH WATER!

Thanks guys.

 

[AKbigsub]

A MUCH easier way to remove the bearing is this:

Do what was described above, but remove BOTH axles. Stick a long pipe through the axle tube from the "good" side until it contacts the bearing you want to remove. Use a BFH and hit the end of the pipe, thus driving out the bad bearing. Trust me on this one. Years ago I worked in a shop that did ten of these a week and this is by far the easiest way I have ever seen.

And I really like the freezer idea too!

 

[jamacee]

Ok so I feel so much better as I always do when I opt not to pay someone and just turn the wrenches myself. I know it was just a bearing but it's more than that for me. It is one step closer to getting to know and understand my truck just a lil bit better. Everyone has got to learn to do it some time for me it took me almost 20yrs.

I would question whether or not the bearing needs to be replaced.

Well the seal was definitely ripped and that was the beginning of the issue.

The tear down and install went more like this....

Chock the front wheels.
Jack up rear axle and place on jack stands.
Remove the wheel and brake drum on the side you want to repair.
Remove diff cover. You'll see the diff, spin it till you see the cross shaft and the bolt that holds it in, it will have an 8mm hex head.
Remove the bolt, hopefully it doesn't break.
Slide out the cross shaft.
Push in on the axle, it will slide in enough for you to remove the c-clip.
Now you can pull out the axle shaft.
Alright, you've been working for 30 minutes, time for a break...
Back to work....
Inspect the shaft for wear from the old seal. I bet it's fine.
Pop the old seal out of the axle tube.
Inspect the bearing in the axle tube. I bet it's fine.
Pop in the new seal.
Put some light grease on the sealing surface where it rides on the axle shaft.

THEN............

Reinstall the axle, c-clip, cross shaft, bolt, diff cover, gear oil, etc...

Was more like this....

Reinstall the axle, c-clip, cross shaft, bolt, and OH SH*T what is that in the back of the carrier??? OH.... it is the lower cog/gear (whatever it is called that is the top and bottom gears that the cross shaft goes through) that fell out of place when I was monkeying with the axle shaft to get it to slip into place.

45min of futzing later I got the gears back in....WHEW - I was blissfully thanking The Lord when they lined up and the cross shaft slide into position.

A slide hammer set should get the old bearing out of the axle tube.

Worked great. Popped right out.

Put the new bearing in the freezer for a little while, seriously. It'll make hammering it in a bit easier. Use some gear oil to help it go in too.

Another Golden Nugget of wisdom that worked like a charm!

A large socket and hammer should do the trick.

O'Reilly rented me the Bearing seat punch which worked great.

Unless you've already taken it apart and found out otherwise, there is a good possibility the rear brake shoes have come apart and are rattling around inside the drum. Definitely seen that before. A leaky axle seal will eventually get gear oil on the drum which transfers to the shoes, making them real "grabby". Couple this with old worn out shoes and they can come apart in pieces and sound like a cement mixer.

Low and behold the cement mixer sound came from the 1 bearing that popped out and was rolling around inside the axle tube.


Final time was about a lot longer than I want to admit but I had fun and learned a ton. So thank for the help!

 

[496truck]

Good, glad you got it fixed up.

Axle work isn't real difficult by any means. Yet, some people won't touch it.

Coincidentally rear end work is like butt sex... Yeah, it's dirty. Yeah, it stinks. But, get in there and have at it. You might have fun and learn something.

 

[scooter122983]

Well im glad your first time was better than mine. Mine went more like this:
Remove tires
Remove Drums
Remove diff cover
Remove cross shaft bolt
Spend a week attempting to remove the cross shaft
Finally remove the cross shaft with a brass drift, big hammer, bigger guy, and a sawzall.
Replace spider gears and side gears
Replace Ring and Pinion(reason for going in there in the first place)
Then reinstall as stated above. I should've gotten a 14SF.

 

[jamacee]

Ouch! Yea Scooter I am glad my 1st time was better than yours too. Dang. Did the 8mm screw that holds the cross shaft in break?

 

[jamacee]

496tuck - yea I was a little leary b/c I always heard a bunch of back n forth about "Oh if you don't those shims right..." stuff. Now I am glad about having gotten in there and learned something.

Now the the Butt Sex analogy...it works but it was more like changing a rooster tail diarrhea poopy diaper...Yea it's dirty, It stinks, the stink is all over the place, dang I am glad I am done, and now that kid is going to feel a lot better.

 

[scooter122983]

I did break the screw but not in the hole, i forget how it broke but i know it broke. My old cross shaft is at work but maybe i can take a picture of it tomorrow so you can see what I had to deal with.

 

[Avery4jc]

I can understand being at a place where you aren't familiar or daring enough to tear into a project but might I suggest now that it's up and running to look into a 3/4 ton swap.

I think a simple 14ff/8 lug 10b or 8 lug d44 would be a good option for how you described the truck gets used. Having larger brakes out back and the strength would be good peace of mind for you as well.
I got my 14ff/10b for $500 with 4.10's and they were in good enough shape I just dropped them in. Spent another $100 or so on u-bolts and little stuff.
I did it with hand tools in my driveway over a couple week period. I swapped in the rear and ran 8 lug out back and 6 lug up front then a few weeks later I swapped in the front.

 

[jamacee]

I can understand being at a place where you aren't familiar or daring enough to tear into a project but might I suggest now that it's up and running to look into a 3/4 ton swap.

I think a simple 14ff/8 lug 10b or 8 lug d44 would be a good option for how you described the truck gets used. Having larger brakes out back and the strength would be good peace of mind for you as well.
I got my 14ff/10b for $500 with 4.10's and they were in good enough shape I just dropped them in. Spent another $100 or so on u-bolts and little stuff.
I did it with hand tools in my driveway over a couple week period. I swapped in the rear and ran 8 lug out back and 6 lug up front then a few weeks later I swapped in the front.

Avery I couldn't agree more with your suggestion. I was also curious about a dana 70 option for the rear but I am thinking a 14bff would be less expensive. I just have been seeing the 70's and sterling's from excursions/f250's but I haven't done my home work on those yet.


UPDATE: Ok so I got it all back together on monday. Haven't really driven it yet except yest. to pic my kid up from school. So I just got back from taking him to school in it this morning.

When I was in the car line we were inching forward like you do in bumper to bumper traffic. Now I am hesitant to describe the sound I am hearing but...

It is similar at very low low speed like 2 m/hr almost like a clunking. Like I have a golf ball duct taped to one tire. So when a full revolution is made you "feel" I slight clunk in the axle.

I did everything right when it went in. The bearing seated fine. The seal seated fine. The axle shaft looked fine. The top and bottom spider gears that the cross shaft goes through did fall out but I got them lined back up. Now if they were off and I didn't put those back in there correctly then the cross shaft wouldn't have slid back in smoothly, Right? So I am thinking that couldn't be it.

Now the old bearing that I removed had a fractured case. It looked like just expanded from the inside out and the case of the bearing had cracks all along it. It dropped a bearing which was floating inside the axle tube which was what was making the cement mixer sound.

So I am scratching my head as to why everything doesn't feel smooth now. Is it possible to seat the bearing too far in? Which would put a small amount of play in the axle shaft? B/c that small amount of play is the only thing I can think of that this feels like.

I need to go to work but now I am tempted to pull the wheel off and check the axle shaft for play.

Friggin 10b's.

 

[Avery4jc]

70's are good out back but in your case I'd just find a 14ff and matching front out of a k20 because they drop right in. Spring perches line up, front driveshaft bolts right up and the rear shaft bolts up with a handy little napa conversion u-joint. Heck even the brake lines are good to go.

 

[Mule man]

Are you sure your U joints are OK?