Frame for winch ground

[K5 rockcrawler]

I have dual batts in the bed of the blazer. I need to run cables to the front for a winch connection. Can I run the positive cable up and use the frame as the ground or do I need to run a seperate ground cable. These are just for the winch as I have another batt for the engine.

 

[cegusman]

I went ahead and ran a ground cable down the frame. Had the extra 0/0 gauge wire sitting around.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

My winch is grounded to the frame.

 

[miniwally]

I have the battery in the back of the buggy and just ran the ground from battery to chassis then all other grounds connect as needed to the chasis.

I have noticed though that if I am working on something electrical that if I grab the hot wire and touch the chassis that I get a little tickle. Had I made an effort to ground stuff directly to battery I would probably cut down on this small issue.

I say ground to the frame and be done but there are minor draw backs to that method.

 

[dremu]

Instructions for my winch said connect directly to negative on battery.

I've also read that the frame is supposedly a bad conductor; I'd be interested if someone has an explanation for that (conductivity/resistance of copper vs. iron/steel?) or is it just webwheeler lore?

I'm thinking more than the frame proper conducting or not, the issue could easily be the connectors. Instead of a straight piece of wire, you're gonna have two bolts or studs, with two ring connectors, and all the issues that come with them, i.e. corrosion, limited surface area of actual contact, etc.

-- A

 

[cybrfire]

Electricity flows better with multiple conductors. It actually flows around the outside of the wire rather than through it. That being said, A frame is one wire.

I have had personal experiences with this as well. Very difficult starting. The truck had the battery in the back and I grounded right to the frame. Just didn't get enough juice or really spin the engine over fast.

Moved the ground cable to the bottom of the starter and HELLO! What a difference it makes.

Long story short, the frame is a terrible ground, for heavy loads especially.

 

[blazin_blazer]

i'm not sure i buy this

Electricity flows better with multiple conductors. It actually flows around the outside of the wire rather than through it. That being said, A frame is one wire.

i have a degree in electronics and electricity does flow around the outside of the wire rather than through it and a multiple conductors flow more b/c with it flowing the outside multiple conductor, its the increase in surface area that allows more energy...i'd like to see surface area of a frame compared to surface area of wire, i belive it would take a lg gauge wire to have the same surface area as a frame, i reserve the right to change my mind after seeing evidence.

a 0 ga wire w/ 32 individual strands will not flow the same as 0 ga. w/hundreds of smaller stands b/c surface area is greatly increased, but is it more surface area than a frame?

 

[4X4HIGH]

When using a winch that will require a heavy amp draw you don't want long cables. The shorter the cable the better off you'll be. The longer the cable gets the more heated the cable is going to get which will decrease effectiveness of the winch.

 

[K5 rockcrawler]

Well, there seems to be a few opinions on this. I ran the ground to the frame and I will see how it works. I have the winch setup to run in a front or rear receiver. The rear location will have short cables, but going to the front has a long cable. I went with 1/0 cable so hopefully I will be alright.

 

[4X4HIGH]

Long cables are going to overheat on you and cause problems. You ever use a set of jumper cables and then feel how hot they get? Same thing here but much worse considering the high amp draw.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Long cables are going to overheat on you and cause problems. You ever use a set of jumper cables and then feel how hot they get? Same thing here but much worse considering the high amp draw.

Were the cables 1/0?

My battery is mounted towards the rear of the truck, 1/0 welding cable, no problems.

There is a table out there showing size requirements based on voltage, amperage and length requirements.

 

[cegusman]

Were the cables 1/0?

My battery is mounted towards the rear of the truck, 1/0 welding cable, no problems.

There is a table out there showing size requirements based on voltage, amperage and length requirements.

X2 no problems for me either. There was also a thread on pirate a while back regarding this same issue. Come to the conclusion that most run the winch ground directly to the battery even if its in the rear of the vehicle.

 

[wasted wages]

The frame is basically a large conductor. Use it to your advantage and keep your grounds as short as possible. Don't run long ground cables. SOLDER ALL OF YOUR TERMINAL ENDS TO THE CABLES !!!! Use heat shrink tubing after your done soldering on the terminal ends.

I also have my battery in the rear of my blazer,,1/0 cable to the frame on the positive and negative sides,,,up in the front I have a 8" x1" heavy braided ground strap between the engine block and the frame. I also ground my winch to the frame with a 1/0 cable.

On the positive side I have a 1/0 cable that runs to the firewall where it peels off to the starter and winch on a 3/8 stud junction block. I have had no problem with this setup.

The trick is: all connections to the frame must be CLEAN AND TIGHT !!!
and made with the proper hardware...IE : star washers,,3/8 grade 8 bolts and washers. plated end terminals SOLDERED to the 1/0 gauge cables.

I use my angle grinder with a cup brush on it to clean the frame down to the steel where I make a connection. After I bolt everything down,I spray some anti corrosive spray on the connection.

I can usually trace about 90% of someone's wiring issues to crappy loose connections or poor connectors on the wire itself.

 

[wasted wages]

have had personal experiences with this as well. Very difficult starting. The truck had the battery in the back and I grounded right to the frame. Just didn't get enough juice or really spin the engine over fast.

Moved the ground cable to the bottom of the starter and HELLO! What a difference it makes.

I bet you didn't have a large ( 1/0 ) ground wire between the engine block and the frame....you would think that there is enough ground path to the starter by the engine being bolted in the truck right ? Wrong...

Don't forget,, the engine sits on rubber mounts and really has a crappy ground path under the heavy load required by the starter. That is why you need a ground strap.


Here's another example....the other day we were welding on my buggy,
the ground for the welder was attached to the frame.

I went to weld a little tab on the rear axle,,when I struck the arc the rod stuck to the axle,,I broke it loose and tried again,,,it stuck,,I tried a third time,,,it stuck.

I lifted my welding hood and saw the steel braided brake line that runs between the frame and the rear axle was on fire! Apparently it couldn't handle the 90 amps that was running through it and burst into flames..

this shows that the rear axle had no ground path through the rubber spring bushings, driveshaft etc when the amp load was place upon it for the weld.

 

[K5 rockcrawler]

All of my battery cables are 1/0, so I am thinking I will be alright. I guess I will find out the first time I winch a heavy load.