Frame swap going to lead to future registration problems?

[Rugby_7]

So I am underway of switching out my old bent frame of my '75 k5 for a straight one out of a '77. I am wondering about title and vin # problems. So far every time I have had a title transferred to my name they have never came out to look at the vehicle here in MN & WI. Just paid the money, signed some papers, and out the door. I am wondering what kind of problems I could run into if that changes or if we move to another area that checks out that stuff.

 

[diesel4me]

I never have had anyone want to check the frame or chassis here on any of my trucks,even on my '72 Chevelle wagon with a '69 Suburban K10 frame under it..
My theory is no one had to know the car no longer sat on its original frame,and nobody asked...I paid for my registration and plate swap fee,and I was on the road...told them its a '72 Chevelle Wagon,period..they didn't need to know it was now a 4x4..or modified...

I had an '85 cab & doors on my '77 GMC K2500 ,the newer cab had a good title so it was registered with that title and numbers before I had bought it--the former owner saved the original tags and title off the old cab,and also gave them to me "just in case",but no one bothered at inspection time to give the truck a second glance..I owned it over 15 years and never had anyone ask or look close at it..

Its unlikely there would ever be a problem unless it was suspected the parts you swap on were stolen,then they might dig deeper--but body shops fix wrecks daily,junkyards sell doors & fenders with just sales slips that have no vin on them,etc--there is so much of that going on its practically impossible to get hassled about that..on something as old as a square body I'd guess most places dont care much if the truck has all its original parts..if it were less than 10 years old then yeah,red flags might get raised..

 

[Rugby_7]

I never have had anyone want to check the frame or chassis here on any of my trucks,even on my '72 Chevelle wagon with a '69 Suburban K10 frame under it..
My theory is no one had to know the car no longer sat on its original frame,and nobody asked...I paid for my registration and plate swap fee,and I was on the road...told them its a '72 Chevelle Wagon,period..they didn't need to know it was now a 4x4..or modified...

I had an '85 cab & doors on my '77 GMC K2500 ,the newer cab had a good title so it was registered with that title and numbers before I had bought it--the former owner saved the original tags and title off the old cab,and also gave them to me "just in case",but no one bothered at inspection time to give the truck a second glance..I owned it over 15 years and never had anyone ask or look close at it..

Its unlikely there would ever be a problem unless it was suspected the parts you swap on were stolen,then they might dig deeper--but body shops fix wrecks daily,junkyards sell doors & fenders with just sales slips that have no vin on them,etc--there is so much of that going on its practically impossible to get hassled about that..on something as old as a square body I'd guess most places dont care much if the truck has all its original parts..if it were less than 10 years old then yeah,red flags might get raised..

I figured it was highly unlikely that it would come up as a problem in most states. The frame vin is pretty difficult to get to without having the body off anyways. I just read about someone out in California I think, where they were stopping everyone to check out vin's and registration at an offroad park. They were confiscating everything that didn't match. It got me thinking about not wanting that to happen.

Edit: here is where I read about that post #1562 = http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/965353-k5runners-blazer-rebuild-thread-63.html

 

[Truckman4life]

I grew up in WI and did a cab swap onto a different chassis when I was in high school. When I went to register it my dad and I took both the chassis title and the cab title in to the local DMV and they actually combined the two into one title. It was mainly under the cab vin but it had the chassis vin listed on the title also. My dad built a trar a few years ago and took a shortened chevy luv chassis and mounted a two door chevette body on it and made it street legal. They had him go to Madison to the highway patrol for an inspection and titled it as a kit car/homemade I believe. I cant remember exactly without talking to him again. All my cab/chassis swaps I have done since then I just use the title for the body since that is the vin everyone always checks.

 

[Rugby_7]

I grew up in WI and did a cab swap onto a different chassis when I was in high school. When I went to register it my dad and I took both the chassis title and the cab title in to the local DMV and they actually combined the two into one title. It was mainly under the cab vin but it had the chassis vin listed on the title also. My dad built a trar a few years ago and took a shortened chevy luv chassis and mounted a two door chevette body on it and made it street legal. They had him go to Madison to the highway patrol for an inspection and titled it as a kit car/homemade I believe. I cant remember exactly without talking to him again. All my cab/chassis swaps I have done since then I just use the title for the body since that is the vin everyone always checks.

A little off tangent: Going from WI to the Moab must be awesome! All those trails and mountains out there.

The guy I got the '77 frame from didn't have the title for it anymore, so that leaves that option out. Plus I would like to keep it pre 1975. Kit car could be an option. My body vin plate is good with the title. I am going to be boxing this frame. Hypothetically what if the '77 frame had a "bad area" that could be cut out and replaced with a "good area" from the '75 frame? Of course that hypothetical is all for curiosity sake and nothing else.

 

[Truckman4life]

A little off tangent: Going from WI to the Moab must be awesome! All those trails and mountains out there.

The guy I got the '77 frame from didn't have the title for it anymore, so that leaves that option out. Plus I would like to keep it pre 1975. Kit car could be an option. My body vin plate is good with the title. I am going to be boxing this frame. Hypothetically what if the '77 frame had a "bad area" that could be cut out and replaced with a "good area" from the '75 frame? Of course that hypothetical is all for curiosity sake and nothing else.

I would just keep it titled as a '75 and not worry about it since you don't live in California. Yeah I moved to Utah in 2003 up north by Salt Lake City then down to eastern Utah in '08 and finally to Moab in '14. It is awesome to live here and definitely a big change from WI. I grew up in Fort Atkinson not far from you. My uncle used to live in Oregon.

 

[diesel4me]

Some states wont allow "frame repairs",so if a vehicle gets a rotted frame,either your forced to scrap it,or weld a patch on,splice it,or replace it "secretly" and say nothing,and hope no one ever looks under the truck for sections being spliced in or a frame swap,etc...

The Sgt. Schultz approach is what most people here use when they go to the RMV to register something "non stock"...having to go to their "inspection" station to get a title or VIN issued for a "custom" vehicle can be a real pain and not cheap,they will be anal and want to know where you got EVERY part from,(if you have no recepits or proof you owned a vehicle an engine came from,etc,legally you cant use it !)--they'll pick it apart for "safety" issues,etc..

 

[Kain]

different states have different laws, Nevada would want prof of ownership for both

 

[skunked]

I figured it was highly unlikely that it would come up as a problem in most states. The frame vin is pretty difficult to get to without having the body off anyways. I just read about someone out in California I think, where they were stopping everyone to check out vin's and registration at an offroad park. They were confiscating everything that didn't match. It got me thinking about not wanting that to happen.

Edit: here is where I read about that post #1562 = http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/chevy/965353-k5runners-blazer-rebuild-thread-63.html

That's not a fair comparison, his cab VIN was altered and that's why he was popped. I think technically they can look for a frame vin if they want but on these older vehicles they don't usually put the energy into that. Pretty common to swap frames her in CA with no issues, it's the body VIN they normally refer to.

 

[Rugby_7]

I can see keeping it simple is the best way to stay away from them giving a hard look at the blazer. If they see that it has been titled and registered for years they might now want to wast time checking over every number.

 

[Rugby_7]

That's not a fair comparison, his cab VIN was altered and that's why he was popped. I think technically they can look for a frame vin if they want but on these older vehicles they don't usually put the energy into that. Pretty common to swap frames her in CA with no issues, it's the body VIN they normally refer to.

The post just got me thinking more on the subject. If I can prevent something like that from happening it is easier to do now then after the fact. If they mostly look at the body vin, that is all good. Cant imagine it being easy to find the frame vin on some of these older rigs, especially up here with all the salt.

 

[diesel4me]

The frame number is usually stamped in the drivers side top part of the rail just behind the steering box.(there was a thread with photos here not long ago )....not impossible to see on a assembled driving vehicle,but as you say,that area often turns to corn flakes and dissapears deep enough in no time in salt belt states to make a positive I.D. pretty tough,it it could be done at all..

 

[82355]

Not a problem here, but I am not in Oregon.

Martin

 

[dyeager535]

So I am underway of switching out my old bent frame of my '75 k5 for a straight one out of a '77. I am wondering about title and vin # problems. So far every time I have had a title transferred to my name they have never came out to look at the vehicle here in MN & WI. Just paid the money, signed some papers, and out the door. I am wondering what kind of problems I could run into if that changes or if we move to another area that checks out that stuff.

As has been alluded to, it probably depends on the state and what you are trying to do.

When I "built" my truck (which entails a new VIN, so they look at way too much IMO) the State Patrol, who does our inspections, crawled under the truck with a dentists mirror to get the frame VIN that is under the drivers seat on the newer frames. They also wanted receipts for the major sheet metal components too. Since I had bought the parts long before, and didn't even know about receipts being wanted, it was a bit challenging to get straightened out.

I can't imagine most places worrying about a frame VIN unless the vehicle VIN/ownership itself was in question. VIN goes with the cab, the rest are just identifiers. Unless the frame VIN showed up as stolen, even if they looked and saw it was different, what are they going to say?

 

[Rugby_7]

The frame number is usually stamped in the drivers side top part of the rail just behind the steering box.(there was a thread with photos here not long ago )....not impossible to see on a assembled driving vehicle,but as you say,that area often turns to corn flakes and dissapears deep enough in no time in salt belt states to make a positive I.D. pretty tough,it it could be done at all..

I could be wrong but I thought the frame vin was on top of the rail about where the passenger seat would be? At least I thought it was there on my '75

 

[dyeager535]

I could be wrong but I thought the frame vin was on top of the rail about where the passenger seat would be? At least I thought it was there on my '75

I was under the impression the earlier trucks were all on the frame around the steering box. IIRC my Dad's '74 is/was.

My frame is supposed to be an '81, definitely under the drivers seat.

 

[Rugby_7]

I went out and took a look. On my '77 frame there looks to be a number (not sure if its the vin) on where the passenger seat would be and on top of the rail on the passenger side, in front of the engine crossmember. They were both the same number. There might be more markings that will emerge after sandblasting.
On my '75 frame there is a number set in the same place as the '77 (passenger side, in front of engine crossmember). I don't have a mirror to check under the body, that will have to wait until it comes off. Maybe after they switched to a dash mounted vin they moved the frame vin as well.

The consensus seems to be Ill be good with just the body vin and title, which puts my wandering mind a little to rest. Sometimes the strangest things start to worry me. Thanks for all the input everyone!

 

[dyeager535]

I went out and took a look. On my '77 frame there looks to be a number (not sure if its the vin) on where the passenger seat would be and on top of the rail on the passenger side, in front of the engine crossmember. They were both the same number. There might be more markings that will emerge after sandblasting.
On my '75 frame there is a number set in the same place as the '77 (passenger side, in front of engine crossmember). I don't have a mirror to check under the body, that will have to wait until it comes off. Maybe after they switched to a dash mounted vin they moved the frame vin as well.

The consensus seems to be Ill be good with just the body vin and title, which puts my wandering mind a little to rest. Sometimes the strangest things start to worry me. Thanks for all the input everyone!

No, that little stuff under the wrong circumstances can certainly be bad. Unlikely, yes, but you always have to weigh the pros and cons. I was really worried when they questioned me on my frame VIN. All worked out, but still not a good feeling leading up to it.

 

[Rugby_7]

No, that little stuff under the wrong circumstances can certainly be bad. Unlikely, yes, but you always have to weigh the pros and cons. I was really worried when they questioned me on my frame VIN. All worked out, but still not a good feeling leading up to it.

I think Im going to have to put it together as is and hope it doesn't get scrutinized and picked over with a fine tooth comb. I have the '75 frame, body vin, and title all matching. I don't have a title for the '77 frame. If it came down to it my engine, transmission, transfer case, and axles don't match either.

 

[scottsdale86]

In Ca they are trying to find two things, people using a vin older then 75 on a newer vehicle to avoid having to pass emissions or people who are using a different vin to pass off stolen vehicles as legitimate ones. IN CA THIS IS A HUGE NO NO. Your case sounds different.