Freaky One

[Fordum]

I am sure this will be obvious to lots of folks here, but it startled me.

I was at my mechanic's this afternoon talking to him about some work I needed him to do.
Girl drove in with a Mercury Mountaineer, I think.

Said she hit a bump, and the engine started running real rough.
He opened the hood, told her to crank it up.

I was standing off to one side. It was a 5 liter engine, had the distributor on the top front like my 5.8, only it was a flatter looking cap.
The engine sounded real rough.
He made the comment that it almost sounded like it had jumped time.

Then he said let me see something.
He reached out and took a wire loose from the cap. No spark, the engine did not change tone.

He said the coil is not firing.
He had taken loose the coil wire.
The engine kept running!

He reached down next to the dis. with his other hand. It uses the flat type coil like my truck.
He pressed on the leads, I heard a slight click, and the wire in his hand started jumping a spark to the post on the cap.
The engine started running smoothly.

He plugged the coil wire back in, and closed the hood.
Told her that the wire to the coil had come loose. He snapped it back on.
No charge, she left.

I had stepped to the front just as he closed the hood, and apparently the truck has two distributors, side by side. Each with four plug wires.

I have no idea why. I have seen engines with one, I have seen engines with eight, one on each plug.
I have even seen engines with eight coils and 16 spark plugs. But this one was weird.

Just blew me away when he pulled the coil wire off and the engine kept running.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Just like how Rangers had two spark plugs per cylinder and the goofy 7 lug F150 axles.

 

[76zimmer]

Just like how Rangers had two spark plugs per cylinder and the goofy 7 lug F150 axles.

Yeah the 7 lugs....better idea, those were on LD 250's weren't they?

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Yeah the 7 lugs....better idea, those were on LD 250's weren't they?

High GVWR F150's and Low GVWR F250's

 

[sweetk30]

um fyi next time you get a chance look at the motor like that again.

its 2 coils with 4 outputs to mae 8 .

no dist on it. its crank trigger style fireing.

what he did was snap the main power /signal wire back on the 1 half of the motor coil pack.

 

[USSkoval]

um fyi next time you get a chance look at the motor like that again.

its 2 coils with 4 outputs to mae 8 .

no dist on it. its crank trigger style fireing.

what he did was snap the main power /signal wire back on the 1 half of the motor coil pack.

Yep, this is true.

Amazing it still ran and was drivable though.

 

[zombie1969]

Fords engins are balanced so they still run smooth enough to keep driving after the cylinders start dropping out.

 

[4X4HIGH]

Fords engins are balanced so they still run smooth enough to keep driving after the cylinders start dropping out.

Proof of this is the 302 ford engine that lots of companies used in service trucks that half the engine was the actual engine and the other half/side was an air compressor. I built quite a few of these over the years.

 

[Fordum]

um fyi next time you get a chance look at the motor like that again.

its 2 coils with 4 outputs to mae 8 .

no dist on it. its crank trigger style fireing.

what he did was snap the main power /signal wire back on the 1 half of the motor coil pack.

I'm certain you're right. I just got a glimpse as he was slamming the hood down.
I didn't ask, because I felt so stupid when the engine kept running after he pulled the coil wire.
As for it being drivable, I never said it was running good.....

But she limped up there with it.
I never asked how far she had gone. It may have happened in front of the shop.

You know, this perfectly illustrates a phenomenon I have seen time and time again.
You put a group of otherwise intelligent people in a room, people who are experts in the field, and hand them a problem.
Its a tossup as to what you are going to get.

Sometimes its a brilliant solution, and sometimes its a solution that they all agree is brilliant, but way later go: " Who the heck thought THAT was a good idea?"

And, yes, I have been one of those people more times than I care to think about.

Like my truck.
Individual injectors.
One for each cylinder.
Each one has its own control wire going back into the loom.

All the hard work is done. So why does it bank fire? The eight injectors are tied together into two banks of four.

Someone makes a kit that does away with that. You get a new harness, computer, and they add a MAF sensor.

Supposed to give better throttle response and gas mileage.
Almost certainly not worth the money for a small gain, but someday.....

Thanks for straightening me out about the engine.

 

[Blue85]

I think there have been some engines with two distributors - mostly with 12 or more cylinders. I assume you have to time each separately and hope for the best in synchronization, but I have never worked on one.

 

[79rustyk10]

I'm certain you're right. I just got a glimpse as he was slamming the hood down.
I didn't ask, because I felt so stupid when the engine kept running after he pulled the coil wire.
As for it being drivable, I never said it was running good.....

But she limped up there with it.
I never asked how far she had gone. It may have happened in front of the shop.

You know, this perfectly illustrates a phenomenon I have seen time and time again.
You put a group of otherwise intelligent people in a room, people who are experts in the field, and hand them a problem.
Its a tossup as to what you are going to get.

Sometimes its a brilliant solution, and sometimes its a solution that they all agree is brilliant, but way later go: " Who the heck thought THAT was a good idea?"

And, yes, I have been one of those people more times than I care to think about.

Like my truck.
Individual injectors.
One for each cylinder.
Each one has its own control wire going back into the loom.

All the hard work is done. So why does it bank fire? The eight injectors are tied together into two banks of four.

Someone makes a kit that does away with that. You get a new harness, computer, and they add a MAF sensor.

Supposed to give better throttle response and gas mileage.
Almost certainly not worth the money for a small gain, but someday.....

Thanks for straightening me out about the engine.

When I was still thinking of hot rodding my 89 f-150 I disovered they are bank fire. I cannot understand why they would design a system like that. I bet that retrofit kit would increase drivability and efficiency by far over stock, which still isnt bad. just horribly innefficient.

I wonder if that kit might be available somwhere still?

 

[82355]

TPI is batch fire.

Martin

 

[Fordum]

I wonder if that kit might be available somwhere still?

Yep, I still have it on my list of things to do someday

http://www.mass-air.com/Products.htm#Truck Mass-Air Kits

 

[Corey 78K5]

Proof of this is the 302 ford engine that lots of companies used in service trucks that half the engine was the actual engine and the other half/side was an air compressor. I built quite a few of these over the years.

True. I saw quite a few of them back when I was working in the gas fields in Oklahoma. Even ran across a few 460's that were also converted. They all seemed to run just fine.
Quick question for ya there Scott. Do those things use regular engine oil, or would they use non detergent oil like in a conventional air compressor?

 

[79bonanza]

this isnt related to the air compressor 302 but my budy hade a 305 in a 85 chevy 1500 that you could completely disconnect the battery negative and all and it would keep running. i thought it was cursed haha wierd thing ive never seen until then

 

[4X4HIGH]

True. I saw quite a few of them back when I was working in the gas fields in Oklahoma. Even ran across a few 460's that were also converted. They all seemed to run just fine.
Quick question for ya there Scott. Do those things use regular engine oil, or would they use non detergent oil like in a conventional air compressor?

All the engines of this type that I built used regular engine oil.

 

[79rustyk10]

Proof of this is the 302 ford engine that lots of companies used in service trucks that half the engine was the actual engine and the other half/side was an air compressor. I built quite a few of these over the years.

was it one bank as the engine and the other th air compressor, or was it 2 cylinders on each bank that were the compressor?

 

[4X4HIGH]

was it one bank as the engine and the other th air compressor, or was it 2 cylinders on each bank that were the compressor?

One bank was engine, the other bank was air compressor.

 

[Blue85]

...they are bank fire. I cannot understand why they would design a system like that. I bet that retrofit kit would increase drivability and efficiency by far over stock, which still isnt bad. just horribly innefficient.

If you have to match the injection timing to the valve opening for an engine to run right, then carbs would never have worked. Sequential injection does improve the idle quality a little bit, but the reason OEMs went to it is for emissions. For top power and high rpm, sequential and batch are pretty much equivalent.

The real magic is direct injection...

 

[79rustyk10]

I am not an engineer and there is alot I dont know, it just seems that having a whole bank of injectors firing at once would waste alot more fuel than it does.