front axel toe/alignment/ball joint Q's and PIC

[supersize75k5]

here the devil...

needless to say I just pretty much killed 2 swampers in just a few days..

Is this a simpe toe adjustment? or what am I looking at here?


the tie rod adjust toe
and the drag link is just for centering things


correct?


I have not a clue in the world how to adjust the rest, shims of some sort?

I have not launched this truck yet or even had a chance to jump it, yet the axel didn't have this issue on the last truck. The only thing I have changed is the tie rod..


please throw some input or knowlege my way!


-shawn

 

[RustBuket]

The tie rod was probably a little shorter and brought the tires inwards. You'll have to either get a new tie rod a little longer or run the threads out a little on each end. I would take it to a shop to have it aligned. Then you will know that is right.

 

[supersize75k5]

ya, but the tie rod was on another members truck, and he had his lookin just fine,



could the condition ofball joints negotiate a difference between two trucks and them needed different width on the tie rod?


I have always done my alignment with a string, I an wondering if it is something more serious or if adjusting the tie rod "can" solve this.

I just thought the angle on the tires looked a little crazy to be just a tie rod adjustment.

also ball joints feel decent, no major play while tire is on air and axel on a jack.

 

[MTBLAZER89]

Get the front on jackstands Make a mark on the outside edge of the tread on the front tires. Measure from mark to mark. Spin the tire 180 and measure again. I don't remember but I think it should be 1/8 to 1/4 closer in the front something like that. Just keep adjusting and measuring. Toe is about the only adjustment you can do without taking it to a shop.

 

[RustBuket]

Well, no truck was created equal so w/e worked for him may not work for you exactly as you want. Also, the different ball joints are probably what made the difference. You're going to want to get that adjusted so you can save those swampers!

 

[supersize75k5]

well I will get motivated and go out side in a few minutes and do it, I will post up with my results..

 

[surpip]

Get the front on jackstands Make a mark on the outside edge of the tread on the front tires. Measure from mark to mark. Spin the tire 180 and measure again. I don't remember but I think it should be 1/8 to 1/4 closer in the front something like that. Just keep adjusting and measuring. Toe is about the only adjustment you can do without taking it to a shop.

i like to measure from the rim, a little more accurate
thats just me

 

[divorced]

I don't understand how this 1/8" more in the front deal can be accurate? If a measurement is taken on the wheels on one truck, then on the sidewall of 31's on another, and the sidewall of 44's on another, how can the toe be accurate? An 1/8" on the sidewalls of a 44" tire will put the toe a lot closer than an 1/8" on the wheels. If you set it at 1/8" on the wheels and have 44's, it seems like it may be up to 1/2" on the sidewalls??? Confused...

 

[MTBLAZER89]

I don't understand how this 1/8" more in the front deal can be accurate? If a measurement is taken on the wheels on one truck, then on the sidewall of 31's on another, and the sidewall of 44's on another, how can the toe be accurate? An 1/8" on the sidewalls of a 44" tire will put the toe a lot closer than an 1/8" on the wheels. If you set it at 1/8" on the wheels and have 44's, it seems like it may be up to 1/2" on the sidewalls??? Confused...

You just measure to one specific point you mark either on the tread not the sidewalls or the wheel then spin it 180 and meaure behind the axle to the same point. you are measuring the difference in your marks depending whether it is in front of or behind the axle. it is just measuring toe in by using a fixed point you make. Hope I explained it right.

 

[BAJA_BLAZER]

Get the front on jackstands Make a mark on the outside edge of the tread on the front tires. Measure from mark to mark. Spin the tire 180 and measure again. I don't remember but I think it should be 1/8 to 1/4 closer in the front something like that. Just keep adjusting and measuring. Toe is about the only adjustment you can do without taking it to a shop.

Don't do it on jackstands. Do it on the ground! The weight of the rig on the wheels will change the alignment. Here is an easy way to check Tow on the ground: Park on level smooth surface. Get out leaving it in neutral and the wheels centered. Push the rig back and forth a few times to get everything settled. Stick a tack, piece of wire, or small nail in the center of the tread on both tires at axle height. Measure the distance from marker to marker. Push the rig backwards half a tire rotation so that the marker is at axle height and measure again. It's very accurate.

 

[MTBLAZER89]

That does sound more accurate...might have to check mine again

 

[divorced]

I understand how to do it, I just don't understand how it can be accurate. If you have two lines that are not parallel, the distance between them will increase the farther out from the axle you go. The picture shows how if you set your tires for 1/8" for 31's, and then switch to 44's you will have a different measurement. The measurements are how far apart my lines are and are exagerated for effect. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe the differences are so small that it's not noticable, but I still don't trust the tape measure method.

 

[az-k5]

Our trucks were designed before the comuter was telling the tech's what bolts need to be tight. It is pointless to go to a shop for a solid leaf sprung axle. Even the computer machines need the tire diameter. It is based on friction scrub and if the tires are not fighting (scrubbing) slightly then there is no feel for center, or natural return to center. If there is too much scrub then they will do what shawns is doing (a heavily toed in situation) or the opposite in a heavily toed out situation.

 

[BAJA_BLAZER]

You are absolutely correct. In reality, Tow should not be measured in parts of an inch, but in degrees. Practically though, setting the Tow in a 1/8 or ¼ at the tread surface is more than sufficient. The point is, as the vehicle is driven forward down the road, the wheels are forced out (Tow out), so an initial Tow In setting is desired. Now, on a front wheel driven vehicle… I’ll let you think about that one for a minute. If you are within a ¼ inch, Tow is probably the least important alignment consideration you have.

I understand how to do it, I just don't understand how it can be accurate. If you have two lines that are not parallel, the distance between them will increase the farther out from the axle you go. The picture shows how if you set your tires for 1/8" for 31's, and then switch to 44's you will have a different measurement. The measurements are how far apart my lines are and are exagerated for effect. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe the differences are so small that it's not noticable, but I still don't trust the tape measure method.

 

[eagle mark]

Spin the tire 180 and measure again.

Ahhh! I think you mean spin yourself... you have to measure the front of the tire and the back of the tire.

I've done this for years with good tire wear. Drive the truck forward on pavement and stop. Measure the front of the tire , at center, measure center height, then pick a spot on the inside tread, then measure the rear, center height. I go for 1/8.

But this does not help castor or camber. Castor can be corrected up to about one degree with a castor corrector. Camber can be adjusted by shims inbetween the spring and axle (use steel shims, aluminum are junk).

But I haven't figured out how to measure for those with out going to the alignment shop?

 

[jarheadk5]

But this does not help castor or camber. Castor can be corrected up to about one degree with a castor corrector. Camber can be adjusted by shims inbetween the spring and axle (use steel shims, aluminum are junk).

You've got your terms mixed up.
"Caster" is the angle that can be adjusted via shims between the spring pads and the springs.
"Camber" is the measurement of how close to (or far from) vertical the wheel is oriented, when looking at the tread of the tire. I think there are shims that can be installed between the knuckle and the spindle to adjust camber on a solid axle, but I could be wrong there. If these shims do exist, the amount of angularity they can correct will probably be pretty limited.