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Front panhard bar yay or nay?

D60 front panhard upgrage worthwhile?

  • Yes, go with front panhard.

    Votes: 7 50.0%

  • No, not needed.

    Votes: 7 50.0%
  • Total voters
    14
N

Ned Kelly

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So I'm thinking of upgrading my front engine crossmember this coming spring. Not sure if I should consider a front BBC crossmember with a panhard bar option. Suspension will be 4" lift at most with stock length springs (ie. not 52's). I do a fair amount of road/hwy to get to trails, currently running D60 frt w/39" tires. Just wondering how noticeable the improvement in handling is?..a worthwhile upgrade?
For those who have installed a front panhard what are your impressions/suggestions (Mnstrburbon?).
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249307&page=6
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/TwiztedEng/XMGM7387/

Thanks in advance for comments.
 
x2 on the ya or na of panhard bar. :popcorn:

but i will be 8" bds frt and 4" bds rear 56" and 4" flip with 7" shackles. on 38-40" tires .
 
I vote yay. I have one on my truck and it sits on a 6" lift with 35's. All spring lift with stock front spring mounts. Truck liked to wonder a bit even with all good frontend parts. I put a panard bar made from 1.5 dom with 5/8 heims. It helped a ****ton with the handling of the truck. I wouldn't hesitate to put one on again. Cost wasn't fairly cheap, under $200. I got all the pieces from Ruffstuff, I'm sure Kurt could make up the parts as well.
 
I know monstrburban? Has one and really liked it. My truck is 8" and crossover and when you turn, you can see the frame flexing around the shackle mount area. I plan on one eventually
 
Where's the "No, it destroys bushings, hurts ride quality and limits suspension travel" option? :deal:

It does all of that. Not to say that panhard bars never have their place but IMO it's mostly on really tall trucks (or rigs with a link suspension where they have none of those drawbacks because links don't constrain the suspension in the same way as leaves).

IMO most people that think they need a panhard really need hydro assist.
 
Yeah Ill see how my burb does after the hydro assist goes on.

I was also.wondering what others thought.

There is just so much movement with the long springs.
 
38377k5 said:
Where's the "No, it destroys bushings, hurts ride quality and limits suspension travel" option? :deal:

It does all of that. Not to say that panhard bars never have their place but IMO it's mostly on really tall trucks (or rigs with a link suspension where they have none of those drawbacks because links don't constrain the suspension in the same way as leaves).

IMO most people that think they need a panhard really need hydro assist.
Click to expand...
I'd say the panhard setup would benefit those who use their rigs more for daily drivers especially when their rig is equipped with crossover steering since the sway bar can't be run.
 
I would say its just about a necessity with crossover steering. I had crossover steering with it and without it, and I would never even think of taking it off now. And you can use a rubber end to take out some of the harshness.

Just make sure you beef the frame up where it mounts to, I suppose the first gens have a different frame, but i had a crack where mine was.
 
Many years ago Stephen ran one on the ORD blazer with leaf springs. Yes it worked to some degree, however he also went through a lot of bushings, made special mounts that actually allowed the leaf springs to have a bit of side to side movement, had to really beaf up the frame and in general was not great. Steering response improved but I can't remember if he had hydro assist or not. Kind of think not since it was pre 2001 front suspension linking and I think that's when the Hydro assist went on.

For a street truck that has 8" of lift sure it's going to improve some aspects of the handling. However, it's also going to hurt other aspects.

IMO it's not a good way to go for the reasons that Chris stated, If you don't mind dealing with a host of other issues from running one then I guess it's ok.
 
38377k5 said:
IMO most people that think they need a panhard really need hydro assist.
Click to expand...

I agree with this statement. Thought I needed a panhard till I added hydro assist.

Never really thought about it but I can see why it wouldnt be so good with leaves. Seems it would force the axle to move in a certain range of motion that might not always agree with what the leaves want it to do.:dunno:
 
This should work. Maybe added some kicker shocks to go with it.
p_9800.jpg


38377k5 said:
most people that think they need a panhard really need hydro assist.
Click to expand...

Could not agree more. About the time that you need enough steering force to need a panhard, you are exceeding the capabilities of the frame behind the steering box in shear. If youre still loading the frame in bending (i.e. No ORD brace), you are WAY exceeding the reasonable design expectations.
 
I not sure why you would ever need one in a leaf spring vehicle. What is the purpose of having a panhard bar. I always thought it was to keep your front end under the truck straight. Isn't that what the leaf springs do?
 
I just drove mine to ID, 200 plus miles 56's 7 inch shackle's on 37's did in the upper 70's the whole way, yes it was cold, and had no problems with sway or wandering or anything.
 
38377k5 said:
Where's the "No, it destroys bushings, hurts ride quality and limits suspension travel" option? :deal:

It does all of that. Not to say that panhard bars never have their place but IMO it's mostly on really tall trucks (or rigs with a link suspension where they have none of those drawbacks because links don't constrain the suspension in the same way as leaves).

IMO most people that think they need a panhard really need hydro assist.
Click to expand...

I do l have hydro assist ready to install. Good to know that will help.

miniwally said:
Many years ago Stephen ran one on the ORD blazer with leaf springs. Yes it worked to some degree, however he also went through a lot of bushings, made special mounts that actually allowed the leaf springs to have a bit of side to side movement, had to really beaf up the frame and in general was not great. Steering response improved but I can't remember if he had hydro assist or not. Kind of think not since it was pre 2001 front suspension linking and I think that's when the Hydro assist went on.

For a street truck that has 8" of lift sure it's going to improve some aspects of the handling. However, it's also going to hurt other aspects.

IMO it's not a good way to go for the reasons that Chris stated, If you don't mind dealing with a host of other issues from running one then I guess it's ok.
Click to expand...

Thanks for adding some details to issues mentioned by Chris. I was not really aware of these domino effects due to 'panhard-ing'. I think my best option will be go without the panhard.
Thanks again for all the responses :waytogo: - and saving me some grief later on.
 
kgblazerfive said:
I not sure why you would ever need one in a leaf spring vehicle. What is the purpose of having a panhard bar. I always thought it was to keep your front end under the truck straight. Isn't that what the leaf springs do?
Click to expand...

That's it, in a three link/radius arm setup, the panhard/tracbar controls side-to-side movement under the vehicle ("panning"), especially when steering force is pushing/pulling the axle parallel to the axle tube (creating panning force).

Leaf spring suspensions deal with that force with a combination of the width of the leaves and the leaf spring spacing. The issue is that as the distance between the frame and the axle increases, there is more bending moment (leverage), allowing for more deflection in the bushings and springs, and as a result more panning movement. The problem with a panhard is that it suffers from the same geometry issues as leaf springs in the end. As that frame to axle distance increases (basically the more lift you have), the steeper the angle gets on the panhard, and the less effective it is (also it causes the axle to swing to the passenger side more dramatically under bump and the driver side during droop, this can also lead to bumpsteer, or in our case with leaves, high stress and binding).

Granted, you can make longer bracketry for the panhard to maintain it parallel in relation to the axle, but I see that creating a lot more clearance issues that we already have issues with on our frames due to being designed for a push-pull/leaf-sprung layout. Also, you have to consider that the drag link needs to be maintained similar in geometry to the panhard link, or you will start getting bumpsteer, and if you're lifted sky high and are getting panning from having super arched lift springs, you'll probably have to think about lowering your pitman arm/steering box, and/or raising your steering arm to maintain that similar geometry with a panhard.

It really just makes a lot more sense if you want to have a super tall bro truck to either build a proper steering system that can control your tires without straining the suspension (I.E. some form of hydraulic that moves force out of the system and places it on the axle), or build a proper suspension (I.E. something linked) that can appropriately handle the stresses that your improper steering is exerting.
 
So lets drag this back from the dead.

I swapped to 52's awhile back and never drove it much, but I did drive it. When I put the 52's in the front I put crossover in and from what I remember I didn't have any problems driving the blazer.
Since then I've added hydraulic assist and I've driven it some and notice now that it feels like when I turn the axle shifts over and after I straighten out it takes a second or 2 for the axle to get centered in the frame again. It also seems to do this when I drive down the road and hit an uneven portion of the road.

In this situation would a panhard fix my problems? If that's my problem? I can't exactly get out and take a look at my axle when I'm driving down the road.

As a reminder, I'm running 52's with my front axle 2" forward, crossover, hydraulic assist, and 6" shackles. I've had an alignment done and my toe is good and my caster is maybe 1* off.
 
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