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fully welding cage (underside)

twoslo4five0

twoslo4five0

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Im currently building a cage and some may say you can weld the underside of a joint but I dont buy into it. Ive been welding for years and never had a decent weld while trying to weld from the bottom. Ive heard tons of different ways to make it work, it just does not happen with me ive tried.

That being said I made the entire cage removable but before pulling it off and welding it I have concerns. I buy into the theory that it will warp or shrink if fully welded off the vehicle. This vehicle has no roof or sides so welding the top and sides is not a issue. I was thinking of welding the bottoms, then putting the cage back in and finishing it off. I was thinking that may lead to less shrink/ warpage.

The other thought is to weld all the joints I can get to then pull the cage out and weld it. Seems like a bad idea going this route though. Whats the best way to go about this?
 
Welding on the tubes will absolutely most certainly move the tubing. Just figure it will and do what you can to control it before hand rather than trying to figure out how to undo it after it happens.

Learn to use gravity to move the puddle. If your puddle falls add some wire or turn down the heat or both. Most people welding cages use to much heat. Attempting to really "burn" it in. If its good quality tubing and probably only .125" thick or so, no need to over do it. Hotter is not always better.
 
Yes, sounds like TwoSlow is talking about overhead. Best tip I know, is turn the wire up a bit for overhead, and move a little faster. Practice on some scrap tubes...it's not black magic, just a will to push through the frustration as you learn it.
 
tRustyK5 said:
Yes, sounds like TwoSlow is talking about overhead. Best tip I know, is turn the wire up a bit for overhead, and move a little faster. Practice on some scrap tubes...it's not black magic, just a will to push through the frustration as you learn it.
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Yep, more wire is sometimes exactly what you need overhead.

I think the common reaction is to take away wire because the puddle is getting to big or drooping and that is the gut reaction. Actually the problem is to wet of a puddle causing it to be uncontrollable. I'm sure you know this trusty, just saying it for posterity and anybody else that may be following along.

Gotta move fast!
 
cybrfire said:
Learn to use gravity to move the puddle. If your puddle falls add some wire or turn down the heat or both. Most people welding cages use to much heat. Attempting to really "burn" it in. If its good quality tubing and probably only .125" thick or so, no need to over do it. Hotter is not always better.
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Thanks for the info. I was about to ask the same basic question. When I was welding on my exhaust I couldn't get anything to stick welding over my head. Turning down the heat and increasing wire speed is something I'll have to try.
 
My best advice (as a professional welder) is TIG it. Also, and please don't be offended by this, if you can't weld overhead then you have absolutely no business welding a roll cage. I am not trying to insult anyone. But things as critical as roll cages should not be welded by those who haven't mastered the most basic of welding skills such as working overhead. It's a matter of safety.
 
Times Welding said:
My best advice (as a professional welder) is TIG it. Also, and please don't be offended by this, if you can't weld overhead then you have absolutely no business welding a roll cage. I am not trying to insult anyone. But things as critical as roll cages should not be welded by those who haven't mastered the most basic of welding skills such as working overhead. It's a matter of safety.
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lol, Ive been welding and wheeling for years. I guess i should give it all up now and take up yarn collecting. you would probably also say all cages must be constructed out of dom or chromoly too right?
 
Times Welding said:
My best advice (as a professional welder) is TIG it. Also, and please don't be offended by this, if you can't weld overhead then you have absolutely no business welding a roll cage. I am not trying to insult anyone. But things as critical as roll cages should not be welded by those who haven't mastered the most basic of welding skills such as working overhead. It's a matter of safety.
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^^^This right here. My buddy and I have welded our fair share of things berfore, but left it to a professional when it came to the cage. The guy that did it for me welds upside down every day for a living. I trusted him a lot more that myself.
 
twoslo4five0 said:
lol, Ive been welding and wheeling for years. I guess i should give it all up now and take up yarn collecting.
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I obviously spoke out of turn. Anyone who has been "welding and wheeling for years" would certainly have no trouble welding a cage. Especially the overhead work. My apologies.
 
Times Welding said:
I obviously spoke out of turn. Anyone who has been "welding and wheeling for years" would certainly have no trouble welding a cage. Especially the overhead work. My apologies.
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And I guess I should revise my first post. I can welding overhead but choose not to. As you say its all about saftey and while I can overhead weld I chose not to as the end result is not as good was welding any other way.

really the question at hand was will the cage shrink if removed and only bottom welded off the truck. I was not what my capabilities as a "hobbiest welder" are.
 
twoslo4five0 said:
And I guess I should revise my first post. I can welding overhead but choose not to. As you say its all about saftey and while I can overhead weld I chose not to as the end result is not as good was welding any other way.

really the question at hand was will the cage shrink if removed and only bottom welded off the truck. I was not what my capabilities as a "hobbiest welder" are.
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EVERY weld joint will shrink (pull) as it cools to room temperature. You can't keep it from happening. You can minimize it, however.
-First and foremost a tight fitting joint will pull less than a loose one. Spend however much time it takes to make the joints fit absolutely as tightly as possible. Like ZERO gap.
-Secondly, you can install temporary spreaders and braces to keep things in place while the cage is out of the vehicle. I have done this several times where joints could not be welded because of body panels (or other obstructions) being in the way.
Even after taking these measures, things will still move a bit, but it should be close enough that it can be pulled back into shape without too much effort.
 
Times Welding said:
EVERY weld joint will shrink (pull) as it cools to room temperature. You can't keep it from happening. You can minimize it, however.
-First and foremost a tight fitting joint will pull less than a loose one. Spend however much time it takes to make the joints fit absolutely as tightly as possible. Like ZERO gap.
-Secondly, you can install temporary spreaders and braces to keep things in place while the cage is out of the vehicle. I have done this several times where joints could not be welded because of body panels (or other obstructions) being in the way.
Even after taking these measures, things will still move a bit, but it should be close enough that it can be pulled back into shape without too much effort.
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Now that is great info like I was looking to get. Im sorry if I came off like an a$$ in my previous post, im just a guy working at home doing what i can to enjoy my hobby and make the most out of my dollar.

On the flip side of things, I do have a buddy who is a professional welder (has his own buisness) I was thinking of calling to see if he could help over head weld. I get very frusterated overhead welding because how clean the rest of my welds turn out (at least to me), the when overhead welding I cant get the same quailty. I guess its kinda being a perfectionist.

I will take some of the tips Kert shared earlier and try them before removal.
 
The best advice I heard is to buy a large jig so you can flip the vehicle upside down :)
 
Just to add my two cents...I have never adjusted the welder differently for overhead on cage tubing, just a change in how you move the weld puddle has worked for me.
 
black dawg said:
Just to add my two cents...I have never adjusted the welder differently for overhead on cage tubing, just a change in how you move the weld puddle has worked for me.
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Movement rate, heat, and wirespeed are all interchangeable to a degree.

Me personally when I overhead I grab that wire speed and bump it up right off the bat.
 
black dawg said:
Just to add my two cents...I have never adjusted the welder differently for overhead on cage tubing, just a change in how you move the weld puddle has worked for me.
Click to expand...

What he said. I guess I would teach my self how to weld overhead before I built a cage.
 
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