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Getting Slip in Drivetrain Somewhere?!? Video!

jeff in co

jeff in co

1/2 ton status
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This thing is just getting frustrating. :confused: Yes, it definitely is, 2 steps forward, 1 step back on any progress.

Here's the problem:

I'm feeling a slight slip or slight clunk on acceleration from a stop light, and it usually happens when more load (gas) is applied to the drivetrain.

I can also place the truck at a standstill and get the slippage to happen as well. I hold the brake and put the truck in drive.....apply a load. Shift into reverse, give it a little gas, then give it some more gas and "pop", the truck jolts or tried to lunge a bit. I can repeat, drive, reverse, load, "pop".....:dunno: What also happens is the driveshaft rotates maybe 1/8 of a revolution when the jolt happens.

What I have noticed is when the truck is cold, it does not do it. Only after it's been warmed up and driven around.

Now the frustrating part:

Rebuilt Transmission (700r4)
New, 14 bolt SF with "newer 4.10 gears" and an Eaton E-locker
- All set up and installed by a local Diff shop (very reputable)
Brand new Driveshaft with new, 1350 u-joints all the way around

I took it to the tranny shop and they were a little lost. They "thought" it might be the rear end because everything forward seem solid to them. The watched the behavior and when the truck tried to lung, the driveshaft turned maybe 1/8 of a rotation. They thought somehow, the diff was slipping.

I took it back to the diff shop and asked. He said it definitely was not his gears.....and "maybe" the diff itself but really didn't know. He thought it could also be the tranny.

I called Eaton and they said they have never heard of any type of slip behavior. That just didn't make sense to them.

The Eaton E Locker I bought was from a fellow CK5'r but I think he was honest about the unit. It was pulled out of a non-used H2 Hummer at the assembly plant.....never used. Installed, but never used.

So, I don't know what to do. Other than re-install my old 10 Bolt and old driveshaft. If everything still occurs, that would tell me it's definitely NOT the new rear end and driveshaft......(but that's a lot of work for me!!)

Anyways, here are the videos of it happening. Sorry, but this is my first video upload and don't know how to stitch them together (hope they work)!

Differential Shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_EC3w7opco&feature=youtu.be

Rear Driveshaft at Axle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K51vUPY9ZE&feature=youtu.be

Rear Driveshaft at T-Case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgC0UtvSlpg&feature=youtu.be

Tranny Motor Mount:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKkBDlCwaqU&feature=youtu.be

Differential with E-Locker engaged:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXHmnAAb8lA&feature=youtu.be
 
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I'm in a bad place, low speed, look at the videos we I get home.

Meanwhile forget the trans. its job is to turn the driveshaft, and its doing that.

Instead, tighten the spring u-bolts, or replace the center bolt, or both.

Sounds like the axle is turning or slipping on the springs
 
it doesn't appear to have a lot of play in the carrier bearings.

look at video 5, right at 24 - 25 seconds watch the spider gear move on the side gear.my best guess spider gear and or cross shaft worn.also be a good idea to check the cross shaft fit in the differental case.how tight does it seem the axles fit on the side gears ?i can see the diff tork up on the springs a little but that seems normal.

My ford work truck has worn spider gears and shaft.some times when i pull away from the curb on a steep up hill,after backing into a space it feels like the tire spins about half a turn.it doesn`t its just taking up the slack.
 
blaznjon said:
it doesn't appear to have a lot of play in the carrier bearings.

look at video 5, right at 24 - 25 seconds watch the spider gear move on the side gear.my best guess spider gear and or cross shaft worn.also be a good idea to check the cross shaft fit in the differental case.how tight does it seem the axles fit on the side gears ?i can see the diff tork up on the springs a little but that seems normal.

My ford work truck has worn spider gears and shaft.some times when i pull away from the curb on a steep up hill,after backing into a space it feels like the tire spins about half a turn.it doesn`t its just taking up the slack.
Click to expand...

On the last video, I engaged the e-Locker so they both should be moving together now. I didn't see a lot of gear moving/spider gears moving when it did it either.

The axle shafts came from the junkyard but appeared to be in great shape. Splines felt good and solid when I installed.

Also, brand new u-bolts and torqued to 125 ft-lbs. Because it generally happens when the truck (tranny and diff fluid warmed up), I don't think it's in the u-bolt/block area. :dunno:
 
Do you think it could be one of the brakes is sticking/not operating/adjusted correctly? I know when mine rust up, and I have to give it some gas to free them, they definitely make a clunking/pop sound when they release. I know you say it doesn't do it cold, but perhaps that is related to the brake shoes/drum still being cold?

My Dad had a spring center bolt shear off, and the truck drove for quite some time before the spring pack came apart at low speed, luckily. Riding in the truck, I guess looking back at it, it felt like it had four wheel steering. It was bad enough that we pulled over to look things over, but it wasn't bad enough to stop driving, nor was it bad enough to tell if it was something messed up in the front, or the rear. I don't think it's your problem, if it's making noise then something is moving, and you'd likely see the spring leaves move if they were making noise because the pin was sheared/loose, IMO.
 
Brakes.....don't know but it doesn't really feel like it. When I installed the axle I also replaced all the brake components as well. Shoes, springs, wheel cylinder, etc....pretty much all new. That is an idea though.

I did check it again at lunch and put the truck in 4wd and also engaged the locker. Sure enough, still there. :(

I did ask an Autozone guy a few days ago and he just threw an idea out there....torque converter. Can it behave this way causing a slip? I've notice it do this slip at about 1,200 rpms if that means anything.
 
I would think some thing in or to do with the e locker more then trans or torque converter. in your videos you can see the carrier rotate.
 
I say quit driving it with the brakes applied. Does it do it if you put it gear not on the brakes?

I don't see an issue with the brakes applied hard. Are you drum or disk? I don't remember. I have seen drum shoes do that.
 
I finally got home, and to be honest, that looks fairly normal for drum brakes. If you have disk, then you have some slop in the axle spline, or somewhere.

Remember drum brakes are self actuating. In other words, instead of just being pressed so hard against the drums that they stop rotating by the wheel cylinders, the shoes rotate with the drum around the wheel cylinder mounting post.

This causes the shoes to use the rotational energy of the drums to jam them harder rather than relying on the force of the wheel cylinders.

Disk brakes do not do that, they just clamp down on the disk super hard. Which is why a brake caliper piston is so much bigger than a drum brake cylinder piston.

To see how it works, pull a drum off, grab the two shoes in both hands, and pretend you are the brake drum.
Try to twist them left and right and you will see how they swing outward to jam the drums.

But, it takes movement to do that.

The amount of driveshaft rotation is amplified by the gear ratio. Say you had 4:1 gears to make the math easy. One rotation of the axle would be 4 rotations of the drive shaft.
So, a 1/32 rotation of the axle would equal a 1/8 rotation of the shaft.

As for the clunking noise, there are several places it could be coming from with no problems.
Wear pretty much anywhere in the drive train could cause that.

Put the car in neutral engine off. chock the wheels, grab the driveshaft and twist it hard and fast back and forth listening for the clunk.

If you don't hear it, put the transmission in park, and get someone to push it back and forth as you listen.
If you did not hear it in neutral, it may be the splines in the slip yoke.
 
Going from forward to reverse there will be some slack in the system. All of the gears have to remesh on the other direction. Trans ans transfer got to reverse inside gears and drive chain. Then you have I joints and ring and pinion backlash and a little slop in the spider gears as well when it switches direction. With the locker it will take up some slack but not all. The vids wouldn't load for me but the rear end is where I'd be looking.
 
Fordum said:
......................As for the clunking noise, there are several places it could be coming from with no problems.
Wear pretty much anywhere in the drive train could cause that.

Put the car in neutral engine off. chock the wheels, grab the driveshaft and twist it hard and fast back and forth listening for the clunk.

If you don't hear it, put the transmission in park, and get someone to push it back and forth as you listen.
If you did not hear it in neutral, it may be the splines in the slip yoke.
Click to expand...

Thanks Fordum. The brakes do make sense and I do know they are more on the loose side than tight. I decided to swing the truck into a local Firestone shop this morning and just do a once over (probably a good idea to get someone elses eyes on my work). Maybe they will find something but I'm pretty confident it's all good.

The logic sound good on the brakes taking some time to warm up before they start behaving this way. Everything back there is new and with it being "light" on the adjustment may contribute to the slippage.

The driveshaft is brand new including the slip yoke however, the T-case is all original and this is the last remaining piece that I have not touched (rebuilt or new). There could be some slop in there.

While driving between shifts (like 2 to 3), I do feel a little bit of slack as it makes it's shift. Just not rock solid as my Yukon for sure! I guess maybe I was just having higher hopes of a more tight drivetrain with a new axle, driveshaft and rebuilt transmission. Not much left to rebuild!

Anyways, thanks all for all the suggestions. I'll see if the bake adjustment makes any difference. If it changes behavior after adjustment, that will make me feel a lot better knowing that is where it's coming from.
 
I have a 14 bolt SF and the same Eaton locker and I also noticed some excessive clunking and movement that wasn't there with the old 10 bolt it replaced. It almost seems like the spider gears have a little more slack or movement allowed than normal. It has been about 3,000 miles since I installed the rear and i honestly don't even hear it anymore , but it was a little disconcerting at first. Since I also installed a new transfer case and driveshaft at the same time as the rear, I spent some time checking it all over pretty well. My final verdict is "nature of the beast" and I am running it.
 
^^^^ that's comforting to hear Greg, thanks! The only thing left for me is the T-case. Did you install new or just rebuild? Hard/Expensive to do? I'm at 337k on the odometer and it could be the original t-case.
 
I built a 241 out of an 89 model to replace my 208. The 241 was in very good shape, replaced the chain just because, pump pickup, fork inserts and some seals and she was good to go. I think I had less than 200 dollars into parts. It is a pretty easy case to work on and in my experience extremly durable.
 
Just an update with not a lot of success yet. I tried the same forward/reverse procedure but did it up against a tree (no brakes appied). I still get the same reaction. :confused:

What I may end up doing is throw the old axle back in and see if it continues. If so, that would eliminate the axle and driveshaft.

I also get slack (it feels like) when the truck shifts from like 2nd to 3rd.....it just hasn't felt very solid. Prior to the axle sway, I just chalked up the looseness to the original axle/driveshaft wear, but now it may be the tranny or t-case (depending on my future swap results).

Anyways, not a ton of new progress but slowly moving forward. :rolleyes:
 
Just throwing this out because it hasn't been mentioned yet: how many times have you torqued the U-bolts after the axle swap?
 
Blue85 said:
Just throwing this out because it hasn't been mentioned yet: how many times have you torqued the U-bolts after the axle swap?
Click to expand...

Probably 3 times now. It doesn't really feel like anything is rocking back there (block or u-bolts). It feels more up front around the tranny or t-case. :dunno:
 
Engine mounts bad, trans mount etc. It may just take some load to make it move

Have someone you trust do the "driving" and lay beside the truck and watch, you might see something that you can't with a video. Hell if you're against a tree just lay under it and watch.
 
I had them change the motor mounts with Energy Suspension one when they did the tranny work 8 months ago.

I did bring it to the tranny shop and they crawled under while I was going back and forth in Drive and Reverse. They said the motor and tranny mounts were rock solid and not moving or making the sound.
 
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