GM Engineers...

[nsxxtreme]

i'm gonna guess aeronautical uses rivets because it accomplishes the job with a lot less weight. One rivet weighs a lot less than a bolt, flat washer, lock washer and nut (or whatever other combo you can think of).

That and on a ship and a boat those parts aren't intended to come apart. They are pretty much mated for life unless there is some structual damage. They aren't installed on parts that wear out. Probably an aditional safety factor using rivets on a plane. You have a lot less chance of rivets rattling loose. Don't need anywhere near the safety factor on a car as you do a plane.

GM's not the only company that used/uses rivets. Find me a mass production frame without rivets and I will give you a cookie.

A frame was never intended to come apart. I'm fairly sure non of the newer uni-body frames contain rivets though. Those are spot welded I'll take a chocolate chip cookie please

 

[owenst7]

I'm fairly sure non of the newer uni-body frames contain rivets though. Those are spot welded I'll take a chocolate chip cookie please

unibody ≠ frame

sorry :P

Honestly, if I were running a shop that was doing balljoints, I'd rather just replace that whole A arm assembly with a new one with the bushings already in. It's not worth the labor to fiddle with 4 bolts for balljoints and then remove two bushings, and press two new ones in. Whole lot faster to just do 2 bolts through the bushings and throw a new one on that a robot pushed bushings in to. The small amount of steel that is wasted from making a new arm is pretty insignificant when labor is $85/hr.

Don't get me wrong, I hate every freaking rivet on my trucks, but I didn't buy the truck because it was already built the way I wanted it, or I would have been willing to pay more for it.

 

[Eric1668]

My biggest gripe with GM is discontinued parts! Little stupid parts that stuff doesn't work properly without!

 

[diesel4me]

"I wasnt thinking that when i was rebuilding my distributor laying on planks layed across my fenders working off of touch only because the distributor is stuffed up so hard against the firewall."Hmm...evidently you've never had the pleasure of replacing the distributor cap & wires on a Ford Areostar van before!.....they put it next to the radio!...and its dam near impossible to reach from either under the hood,or from the "doghouse"....and at least you can drive a Chevy thru a puddle without soaking the distributor and possibly cracking the cap!..Dodge put the distributors on their small blocks in the rear too,probably just for that reason...but their 383 and 440's had them up front like Fords did..

 

[black dawg]

First off, I am a ford guy. I have suburbans because ford didnt build anything like them back in the day. I like my suburbans alot, but there is some stuff that pisses me off occasionally.

the seat belts just flat suck, never work right and are generally just a pain in the ass.

they should have fired the guy for even mentioning a tailgate on a burb.

700r4 transmissions apparently hate me

door hinge pins and bushings WTF

I am shure I could come up with more, but I really do like suburbans.

one of the things that amazes me is how tough the interior is in these old burbs (81-91). My old diesel burb had 560k on it when i decided I was done with it and the seats and carpet look really good.

 

[tRustyK5]

Caddy and Buick had front distributors...nice to work on.

 

[nsxxtreme]

"I wasnt thinking that when i was rebuilding my distributor laying on planks layed across my fenders working off of touch only because the distributor is stuffed up so hard against the firewall

Hey at least it's better then how my boat was made. On that I think they must have put the distributor in before they installed the motor on the boat. There is a wood beam that goes right over the top of the distributor cap. Essentially making it impossible to ever change the cap My boat motor is a chevy 350. I had to take a jig saw to that just so I could get my cap off Not Gm's fault but I feel your pain.

 

[63chevyll]

unibody ≠ frame

sorry :P

Honestly, if I were running a shop that was doing balljoints, I'd rather just replace that whole A arm assembly with a new one with the bushings already in.
[\quote]


I bouight a whole new A arm with Ball Joints and bushings for a Nissan for $55.....Duh, why in the hell would anyone waste time changing them out when the whole part is that cheap.

 

[73k5blazer]

Why the HELL would you make a giant sheet of plastic, w/ little metal paths,
To distribute the electricity to the gauge cluster!?

What the flying ****...

New gauges are in my near future.

One of the only things really pee's me off on the 73-87' era trucks is the damn jack in the engine compartment. Once you remove it, forget about it ever being put back the way it was. It will never fasten back down proper, will rattle, it weights down the fender wheelhouse that when they get the wee bit rusty, it falls thru, hits the tire and wrecks whatever good side sheet metal you may have had left. Whoever put that damn jack in the motor compartment on the fneder tucked just so under the battery and just slightly away from the blower motor, should be burned at the stake.

I do think, for the most part, GM trucks are "better engineered". They do more testing, from what i've seen. That said, they make some poor choices now and again. They all do. Six of one, one half dozen of the other, take your pick.

 

[USSkoval]

One of the stupidest things I've ever seen IMO. Now when they went to the vortec motor someone obviously fired the bracket guy LOL.

Stonger why just cause it's a rivet? I don't think so.......its going to be as strong as whatever the sheer strength of the metal is. Cheaper then a bolt sure but still one of the dumbest things GM ever did IMO.

I actually think it was done for profit reasons. I would expect that if you went to GM service center to get your ball joints replaced they wouldn't replace just the ball joint. You'd have to buy a complete upper or lower control arm which is much more profitable then replacing a ball joint. More and more companies are doing this as the repair buisness is getting less profitable.

On my Range Rover the transmission is sealed for life. It's a non servicable part. No oil changes nothing. So when your transmission goes they expect you to fork out $10k just for the transmission not including labor. That was the #1 reason I bought my blazer so I could tow my boat and not worry about the expense of the transmission going out.

I'm just waiting for the day the motor becomes a non-servicable part. Guaranteed it happens within our lifetime.

That's a pretty easy fix if they wanted to. Conformal coat the circuit board, problem solved.

The good points about the rivets were recently discussed in a frame thread, some have been covered here. Honestly, I don't see what the big fuss about rivets is. I can see why they would be a pain for someone that's not used to dealing with them, but just because people aren't familiar with them doesn't really mean they are a bad idea. Once you are used to removing them, it's no big deal.

And replacing the entire control arm didn't become common until recently. Some designs have a ball joint that simply CANT be replaced (I think Honda started that), while others are cheap enough that it just makes sense to replace the entire arm.

First off, I am a ford guy. I have suburbans because ford didnt build anything like them back in the day. I like my suburbans alot, but there is some stuff that pisses me off occasionally.

the seat belts just flat suck, never work right and are generally just a pain in the ass.

they should have fired the guy for even mentioning a tailgate on a burb.

700r4 transmissions apparently hate me

door hinge pins and bushings WTF

I am shure I could come up with more, but I really do like suburbans.

one of the things that amazes me is how tough the interior is in these old burbs (81-91). My old diesel burb had 560k on it when i decided I was done with it and the seats and carpet look really good.

I like the tailgates on my two Burbs

700R4 in a truck... yeah, I agree

Door hinge pins and bushings... unlike most Fords, you don't have to pull the dash to fix a sagging door


I did think of one big gripe though. Push-pull steering

 

[black dawg]

It does suck to get to the hinges on some fords, but I have never had to replace one on any of my fords ever.

And the rivets are really a non issue, a good air hammer makes ball joints a quick job.

 

[nsxxtreme]

It does suck to get to the hinges on some fords, but I have never had to replace one on any of my fords ever.

And the rivets are really a non issue, a good air hammer makes ball joints a quick job.

The air hammer pops the heads of the rivets off but then you still gotta drill the damn rivet out. I've never had one where you could just pound it out after taking the head off. Used a 5lb sledge and a punch those rivets weren't moving.

 

[Safari-K5]

Gm did a pretty good job designing the 73-87 out of all the older fords and dodges you see many many more chevys still rolling down the road. Why is that? they dident change stuff all the time for the sake of changing it. And when they did it was fairly compatible.

Because of the capability the k5 blazer and the other trucks of the era had i belive we are jaded.

The entire driveline of a 73-87 can be pulled and swapped faster than you can change the spark plugs on many v6 fwd cars. With the stock size tire/lift the blazer was a very durable very dependable truck that withstood years and years of abuse and dosent complain that often. Most of the weak spots everyone is talking about is after modifying with larger tires, bigger engines, more lift ect. Nothing from the factory is perfect. ever.. period.. even 1million dollar Bugatti are flawed or had to compromise in some way.

Dont forget nearly every 18 wheeler on the road today has a push pull style steering setup they work flawlessly when they are within factory spec.

Nothing from the factory is perfect. ever.. period.. even 1million dollar Bugatti are flawed or had to compromise in some way.

The k5 blazer is just a shell. You take from it what you put into it both in work and monetarily. There is not a single pice on these trucks that the aftermarket hasent redesigned fixed improved or strengthened. want 1000hp that idles smoothly and cranks cold like a snap(efi)? Super strong drivetrain? rollsroyce interior? either do it yourself or pay someone else to. We live in one of the best times in the automotive world where nothings impossible.

This is the level of fit and finish one can be brought to

How nice can the interiors be made?

Hows this for engine advances?

 

[original balzer]

LOL I was just thinking if you choose a year lets take 1985
SUVs are blazer bronco and ramcharger.
available engines
blazer=I6, 305, 350
bronco=I6, 302, 351
Ram= 318, 360

all have available manual trans or auttomatic.

Now lets just say you have a base model with the small engine, manual trans and you want to swap to the biggest engine. Which vehicle do you want to do this to?

I mean a I6 chevy to a 350 swap is easy in comparison to a bronco or ramcharger. Hell you can even reuse the flywheel, motor mounts bellhousing, fuel pump, radiator ect.

A ford your going to need to replace all of that, AND your probably going to need "Ford special tools"

The dodge you will need to replace half that stuff.

Lets not even get into vaccume lines on a 85 ford or ramcharger simply rediculous amount of spagetti under the hood.

Yes they all have their flaws, but heres my story.

My first truck (before I was even 16) was a 1975 ford F250 highboy with a 79 f150 body and a 1968 390 police interceptor and a C6 out of a 68 galaxy. It was a hot rodded engine and had a real problem cracking exhaust manifolds. I went through about 6 sets before I found a set that fit.

My first legitimate truck (after I was 16) was a 1969 c10 with a I6. we pulled the I6 out and got a 350 out of a 78 and reused the flywheel motor mounts fuel pump bellhousing throttle linkages it all wired in right everything worked.
I later swapped in power steering pump, engine brackets, hoses and steering box from a 1987 2wd gmc, and again everything bolted in and worked perfectly. In fact that went so well I went right back to the 87 in the junk yard and pulled the front disk hubs, proprtioning valve, brake lines, brake booster and master cyl and swapped those all onto my 69 replacing the juice drums. Try that with a ford. (however I will note putting power disk brakes on it, made me have a 6 lug rear and a 5 lug front)

This is why I am a GM guy!

 

[Richcz28]

A lot of brackets? Sure. At least it's fairly easy to remove any one of them.

I'm sure they did rivets partly because it's stronger. They have been doing that since long before pinching pennies got out of hand. And any monkey with a torch or air hammer can remove them just as fast as rusted bolts.

Give me some more, I'll tackle those too

I don't have many gripes with GM, but other manufacturers on the other hand...

F***** rivets. Why are 4th gen camaros window motors riveted to fiberglass doors! Those are sure fun to drill out without...

 

[USSkoval]

F***** rivets. Why are 4th gen camaros window motors riveted to fiberglass doors! Those are sure fun to drill out without...

Those don't give me trouble either, or the dustbuster vans. I guess you can call me the rivet slayer

Also, you don't need to remove the window regulator from the door. Just drill small access holes to get at the small rivets that hold the motor to the regulator, then pull out the motor. It's only about a 20 minute job, including door panel removal/install. If you remove the regulator, the job is a biotch.