Has anyone use ????

[akonitony]

Now I don't want to put words in Kert's mouth, but I'm sure he wanted you to call so you could get everything sorted out right away rather then drag it all out in multiple e-mails over the course of a few days. Kert is very good on replying to PMs! I've had a bunch of questions answered through PMs over the years. Kert's products are hands down the best I've ever ordered and he always has the best prices. The B-52s win simply on the fact that they have so many mounting options so they will work for whatever springs you are using whether thats stock 52s or 56s or lifted 52s or 56s.

On that v4x4 website they say you dont have to move your shackle mount and it moves the axle 2"s forward. I find that hard to believe. If you dont move the shackle mount you will have a terrible angle unless of course you use 56" springs, which they never mention.

They should say it moves the front spring eye forward about 2", and this is so the center pin in the leafs will line up plumb with the factory location. I tied a piece of string to the bump stop's nut and hung a little washer from it for the plumb line. I then noted how the stock center pin lined up with it. When I installed the 52" leafs I had built, the center pin was right on with where it would line up from the factory. Do you know what type of steel does the DIY use? Is it cut with a plasma cutter? I wonder how brittle the edges are with that type of steel (because of HAZ).

 

[sweetk30]

i would never use lockwashers for anything on my frame. thay twist out and dont stay tight. thats the first thing i dont like.

and i was told a bent peice is stronger than cut and welded sections.

then the full adjustable is the best in the end.

and if bent is no good then the frame is junk as its bent from the factory.






now not to trash his stuff it looks super strong. nice built.

but is there room for improvement ? YES

if i was on a budget and never going to upgrade my front end springs mabye i would buy these but not likly.

 

[muddermilitia]

They should say it moves the front spring eye forward about 2", and this is so the center pin in the leafs will line up plumb with the factory location. I tied a piece of string to the bump stop's nut and hung a little washer from it for the plumb line. I then noted how the stock center pin lined up with it. When I installed the 52" leafs I had built, the center pin was right on with where it would line up from the factory. Do you know what type of steel does the DIY use? Is it cut with a plasma cutter? I wonder how brittle the edges are with that type of steel (because of HAZ).

Honestly I wouldn't go through all the work of swapping 52s in just to have the axle in the stock location, thats just my opinion. As for your other questions, I don't know. Maybe diy will chime in

 

[blazinzuk]

Hey I mine as well add my two cents in here!

I have seen rivets pull out of the Chevy frame, steering bolts pull through the frame etc.

I personally like DIYs because of the fact that they do have the nut plates backing plates whatever you want to call them. Having an adjustable plate is another advantage. The reason you go to 52s is for flex, You can fine tune your shackle angle which can be very important.

Now it looks like to me like the V4x4 ones are stronger overall, but lets face it both these brackets are serious overkill.

In the end use whichever one you want both look like good products.

 

[Stomper]

Don't care what you all say, Kert"s a poopie head!

 

[akonitony]

Well, there ya go...

 

[akonitony]

First, I didn't use the lock washers. I used the grade-8 flat washers, and hit the nuts and bolts with some Loctite, threadlocker red. Next, these things aren't just welded together, they have tabs and notches, they call it lincoln logs style, so they interlock and then are Tig-welded. Like I said, you get what you pay for - compare the pics and you can tell the plates V'4x4 uses are about twice as thick as the D'4x units. The fact they are hot-rolled rather than cold makes for a stronger piece as well.
I'm sure Kert's products all hold up well under the most extreme circumstances, but I wanted to keep as many factory rivets as possible.

 

[cybrfire]

does the brand "DIY4X" help the pinion angle like virginia's does ....theres slighlty turns the pinion upwards ?????

We do not address pinion angle in the hanger. Simply put, I don't know what your pinion angle is. Nor do I know where the caster angle is. When you change one you change the other. Unless you go into some serious surgery its just the way it is.

none of the metal is bent into shape because it is A36 hot rolled steel plate. It is cut with a waterjet

No reason you can't bend A36 hot rolled steel plate. We do it all day everyday. Nothing special about A36. IMHO, those don't look like waterjet cuts. If they are the edges are rough. They look exactly like the edges on our plasma cut parts. Just throwing that out there for posterity sake. I don't know how the parts were cut, none of my biz. I'm only mentioning it because its brought up as an issue here.

I noticed the D'4x4 had a backing plate with it, and the V'4x4 did not require it. That combined with the bends in the D'4x pruduct tells me the steel is probably inferior to the V'4x4 product. I also like the fact there is no HAZ with cuts made by a waterjet as opposed to laser or plasma cutting.

Yep, we use what we call a "nut strip." It simply spreads the load over more area. As a bonus, it makes installation simpler at the same time. Rather than having to hold a wrench on the inside nut, all you need to do is start all the fasteners into the strip and hit it with a impact, butterfly, air ratchet, pick a weapon and done. The smaller teardrops work the same way, these spin till the catch the frame wall and then tighten down. Anybody that's used them this way will tell you how handy it is.

The perches I just put on are stronger than the frame to which I attached them. They are almost twice as thick as the 1-ton frame's steel. The truck I am working on is an Alabama national Guard truck, so it had only minor surface rust, but if those mounts were toast, I suppose you'd have a point in that the D'4x kits come with new mounts. Since the main force on the V'4x kit is almost nothing against the bolts, very little shear, and no tensile, the mounting system is better than the D'4x kits as they will experience a lot of shear force with the side rivets being replaced with bolts. If you look at the head of one of those rivets, you'll see the "nut plate" is not needed to help the frame out. Flat washers will provide more surface area than the original rivets. See what I mean?

Our B52 kit has a flange that rides under the frame. This removes the risk of shearing bolts. We are not just hanging the bracket on the side of the frame.

In my experience, after 20 plus years, the rivets are generally on their way out anyhow. Get 'em out while the gettings good.

If a flat washer will provide more area than the rivet, I'll guarantee you the nut strip provides more area than the flat washer. With a top lock pinch nut, you're good to go.

Don't care what you all say, Kert"s a poopie head!

Now that was just mean! I could swore I was a good guy at the beginning of this thread.

In all seriousness, if i've missed a question or conern, post it up. I'll answer.

 

[cybrfire]

Well, there ya go...

OH, its much worse!

Like I said, you get what you pay for - compare the pics and you can tell the plates V'4x4 uses are about twice as thick as the D'4x units.

Our material is completely 1/4" steel.

 

[Stomper]

Now that was just mean! I could swore I was a good guy at the beginning of this thread.

Well that's what Mikey says when you're not around

 

[chosen(1)]

I'm going to have to call shill on this one. Anyone who is so driven to sign up for an account just to tell us how great a product is, in a thread that no one has thought twice about in two months just smells a little too fishy to me.

 

[mikey_d05]

First, I didn't use the lock washers. I used the grade-8 flat washers, and hit the nuts and bolts with some Loctite, threadlocker red. Next, these things aren't just welded together, they have tabs and notches, they call it lincoln logs style, so they interlock and then are Tig-welded. Like I said, you get what you pay for - compare the pics and you can tell the plates V'4x4 uses are about twice as thick as the D'4x units. The fact they are hot-rolled rather than cold makes for a stronger piece as well.
I'm sure Kert's products all hold up well under the most extreme circumstances, but I wanted to keep as many factory rivets as possible.

-Those don't look like waterjet cuts.

-TIG creates a HAZ as well.

-I spent a year in a physics lab as well, but unless you're talking specifically about statics, normal physics topics really don't have much to do with this.

-If a washer is better than a rivet in terms of surface area, how is a strip not better than a washer?

-If a washer is better than a rivet, why did you want to keep so many factory rivets?

-If your plates are twice as thick, you're using 1/2" steel.

-The adjustability isn't so you can align it, it's so you can run damn near any spring combination you please, and will accommodate anything you want it to in the future.

-Things are often misinterpreted on the internet. Phone calls are faster, easier, and often more accurate when detailing technical information, barring diagrams and schematics. It might cost you a few bucks if you don't have a nationwide plan or enough minutes, but it's worth it.

-Bending A36 is not an issue provided your bend radius isn't too tight. Unless you have done an NDT analysis of the welds, this comparison is driving at a moot point.

-I do call Kert a poopie head when he's not around.

 

[akonitony]

Check me out all you want. I have no ties to Virginia4x4 other than being a recent customer. While I was websearching for the product to help me install my 52" springs, I contacted both DIY and Virginia4x4. I chose to go with the V brand over the D brand for a variety of reasons. Maybe if I come across a bad body mount on one of my future projects, I will buy the DIY brand. To say they are the best is going a little too far. There is no way anyone can convince me the D brand is stronger, since it is entirely 1/4" while the V brand incorporates both 1/4" and 3/8" plates.
Anyway, do whatever you want. It really does not make a rat's behind difference to me. Just be careful about who you discriminate against for no reason other than a different opinion than the mainstream.

 

[mikey_d05]

I'm not hacking on you for your opinion, I'm hacking on you for the contradictions and misinformation in your posts.

 

[akonitony]

What misinformation? I stated there was thicker steel, but did not say it was exactly twice as thick, I said they were ABOUT twice as thick. Since they do indeed use 3/8" plate where they need it, it is about half way to the twice as thick mark. Since half is equal to 0.5, and if you round this properly, you get 1.0, that would be ABOUT twice as thick.
Bottom line, I have just as much right to an opinion, especially when it is answering the EXACT question that was asked at the beginning of this thread, I stand by my opinions and facts which I have espoused. I didn't know what kind of steel DIY uses, so I stated what kind I knew my purchase uses. Hot-rolled steel is stronger than cold, and I will be sure to email Matt and see if he will send me a pic of him standing next to his waterjet machine, as the cuts on the product I received do look like they were made with a waterjet, which does not produce HAZ.
I never said Tungsten Inert Gas welding does not produce HAZ, so that is you putting words in my mouth. I figure the less HAZ, the better. I also know you can bend A36 steel with a CNC press brake with no problem, and there are two very slight bends in the top plate of these pieces, so I admit I did not see the bends in my first reply. The point I was trying to make is it is much more difficult to bend 3/8" steel than 1/4". Why it is almost TWICE as hard, dontcha think?

 

[akonitony]

The way I found this thread was by doing a search for "virginia4x4", as I wanted to see if anyone else had bought this product. When I read the direct question at the beginning of this thread, and saw how biased EVERYONE who had replied was for Kert's products, yet nobody had ever held one of the Virginia4x4 parts in their hands to see it up close and personal, I figured why not take a few minutes to set the record straight. I can see now I have been wasting my time.
If you ever get tired of blowing smoke up each others behinds, and want to go to a forum with open & honest opinions, try... well, wait a minute, I don't think we need your kind there.

 

[KansasTwister]

The way I found this thread was by doing a search for "virginia4x4", as I wanted to see if anyone else had bought this product. When I read the direct question at the beginning of this thread, and saw how biased EVERYONE who had replied was for Kert's products, yet nobody had ever held one of the Virginia4x4 parts in their hands to see it up close and personal, I figured why not take a few minutes to set the record straight. I can see now I have been wasting my time.
If you ever get tired of blowing smoke up each others behinds, and want to go to a forum with open & honest opinions, try... well, wait a minute, I don't think we need your kind there.

You dont even consider the fact of allowing kert to carry such a product because you seem so gung ho on virgina, have you sat down and done the math and calculated how much force its going to take to bend the 1/4 inch brackets from kert? then have you also figured out how one could put such a strain from the bracket to break it? of course, other than repeated abuse, but anything will break after a time period of major abuse.

 

[akonitony]

R U sleeping with Kert or something? If anyone is gung ho about a product, it would be the person who brings up product "D" when they were asked about product "V", and then starts bashing V when they have never even held one in their hands. Go back and read the original post that started this thread. He did not ask about the DIY product at all, but did ask about the product I just received in the mail two days ago, and am very pleased with the ease I had installing it, the quality of it, and the way it is soft, yet supple. It even smells nice.
Anyway, if anyone is trying to sell something here it is you. Go back and read the actual question that was asked. You might even try it out loud if that helps. Then tell me how the f*ck that relates to the DIY product that is contaminating this site, and I am sure the guy was already familiar with if he has managed to find the v'4x4 site, and is registered here. If I ask you how you like a Ford, and all you've ever had is a Chevy, how is telling me about your Chevy going to help me learn about the Ford? BTW, I would never own a Ford, but hopefully you get the idea.
This is getting ridiculous. If you have another reply that does not relate to actual experience with the V'4x4 product in person, how about not?

 

[mikey_d05]

If you ever get tired of blowing smoke up each others behinds, and want to go to a forum with open & honest opinions, try... well, wait a minute, I don't think we need your kind there.

I'm not blowing any smoke. You wanted to talk tech specs, I followed along.

Refute my claims and I'll drop them. Until then, don't tell me that 1.5 = 2 and that bending A36 is improper.

 

[akonitony]

You sound like a record with a skip and repeat going. I never said Bending A36 steel was improper, the point I was making is the more steel is bent, the more it is weakened. Therefore, if you are comparing a piece of steel with less bends, it should be stronger. A perfect example is a lawn mower deck. If you have ever ran a riding lawn mower into a solid stump or something and bent the edge of the deck, you will know it is now weakened in that area, and no matter how well you bend it back, it will still be weaker. Quit twisting everything I type out of context.
You still haven't answered my question about your relationship with Kert... R U the pitcher or the catcher?
You know what? I'm done arguing with your dumb ass, you are just pissing me off now with your girlish behaviour. Only women argue this much over words. The guy asked if anyone had ever used the V'4x4 parts, I have, I answered. As for you and the rest defending your butt-buddy's products, kiss my ass.