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Headers vs. stock manifolds

Agree with just about everything said, pro-headers that is. :) Tests again and again have shown that even on bone stock engines, headers work. Maybe not 40HP, but 10HP is noticeable and entirely possible on a 350. Long tubes are better than shorties, period, when talking power production only. Thorley tri-y's, in the ony back to back test I've seen, did NOT make more power than long tubes, less actually. My experience so far is that if you want headers to last, get stainless steel, because everything else eventually fails. Equal primary length is one of the least critical construction aspects of headers. You can make plenty of power without them being equal length. Scavenging still happens, that is based on a few things, one being diameter of the primary tube. Larger primary tubes WILL hurt power (because of no scavenging) this is probably where the "backpressure makes power" myth came from. Too big is bad, too small is bad. None of us here (that I know!) have the resources to play around with header design enough to actually know what our particular engine will perform best with. Unlike NASCAR teams. Obviously if you can get equal length, great, but if you aren't measuring power with different length collectors and so on, forget about it, the increase isn't worth the effort or cost. Probably have a hard time finding them for our trucks anyways. I don't know if David Vizards (excellent) article on exhaust is still over at enginemasters.com, (hardcore tech section?) but if it is, I believe that will shed some light on the subject.
 
I run the Edelbrock headers that are a 'direct bolt on" with smog stuff. After a year they have rust, not too bad, but its spotting. Changing spark plugs is a pain. They came with everything needed, but the stupid air pressure check valves stick up right in the way and the dipstick doesnt quite clear it right.

I cant tell you about the performance gains that I had since I did a lot of other work to the motor at the same time, but be sure that if you do buy headers to invest in a good set of gaskets. I am running the Earl's gaskets. The papers blow out pretty quick.
 
i got some painted hooker comps with 2.5" collectors. they fit and work great. i have not run into any clearence / leak / cracking problems. i welded a "smog tree" for the A.I.R. injection and O2 bung to help pass inspection.
 
dyeager535 said:
Agree with just about everything said, pro-headers that is. :) Tests again and again have shown that even on bone stock engines, headers work. Maybe not 40HP, but 10HP is noticeable and entirely possible on a 350. Long tubes are better than shorties, period, when talking power production only. Thorley tri-y's, in the ony back to back test I've seen, did NOT make more power than long tubes, less actually. My experience so far is that if you want headers to last, get stainless steel, because everything else eventually fails. Equal primary length is one of the least critical construction aspects of headers. You can make plenty of power without them being equal length. Scavenging still happens, that is based on a few things, one being diameter of the primary tube. Larger primary tubes WILL hurt power (because of no scavenging) this is probably where the "backpressure makes power" myth came from. Too big is bad, too small is bad. None of us here (that I know!) have the resources to play around with header design enough to actually know what our particular engine will perform best with. Unlike NASCAR teams. Obviously if you can get equal length, great, but if you aren't measuring power with different length collectors and so on, forget about it, the increase isn't worth the effort or cost. Probably have a hard time finding them for our trucks anyways. I don't know if David Vizards (excellent) article on exhaust is still over at enginemasters.com, (hardcore tech section?) but if it is, I believe that will shed some light on the subject.

I don't know about now but 10 years ago Thorley were the best built headers and were not made for highly modified engines (small primary diameter) like most of the long tubes were.
 
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Difference between best built and most effective though. Like I said, I can only cite one back to back study, and it didn't favor the Thorley's.

Another factor is that a lot of the testing just isn't precise. Not much if any tuning, multiple changes at once, etc. But at the same time that the combinations aren't optimized, neither are things like primary tube diameter and what not. Basically best compromise for real world situations.
 
TheAustrian said:
what for is a X or H pipe?

A X pipe is a pipe that comes from both exhaust pipes to the center of the vehicle then goes back out to the sides, it is used to help the exhaust pulses equal out and go out both pipes instead of trying to go out just one. An H pipe is just the same as an X pipe in that it equals out exhaust pulses but instead of having to relocate the entire mid section of your exhaust it is one single pipe that runs from the left pipe to the right pipe. X pipes are better in that the gasses dont have to make a sharp turn but a H pipe is easier becuase all you have to do is cut out a section of pipe on each side and slide on the T then the crossover pipe. If you need more help with a description of the design you can go to jegs.com and search for them.
 
thanks for explaination. But is there any benefit other then smoothen the pulse of the exhaust? I heard that also the sound changes, becomes smoother because the left and the right zylinder bank become mixed. true?
 
i got thru a set every 2-3 yrs... but i wheel my truck pretty much every weekdn HARD! putin a new set in this weekend...yes good idea too cut flange off and weld...lots of exhaust bracing, clamping will help stop the tubes from cracking.....bottom line headers are good IMO.
 
Headers are good for power, but it's hard to beat a cast iron manifold for durability and general freedom from maintenance. I will probably end up running stainless headers on my planned new motor, but I am going to check out different late model manifolds before I make that decision final...
 
There are stainless steel "maneaders" in the '85-88 GM parts manual for our trucks (plus the P series) last I looked they were still available. Nowhere near cheap though, something like $250+ each.
 
blazin_blazer said:
i like to run factory exhaust manifolds...i'm lucky enuff to have a company locally that does extrude honeing and i've had a couple sets smoothed and bored out....

What is this extrude honeing? I have heard the term before, but not what it is or does...please explain.....sorry about the minor hijack
 
they use clay with lava rock in it and other sort of abrasives, they have a diamd clay, and they clamp your piece and pump the different "strength" abrasives thru untill they remove as much material as they need and it like porting something from one end to the other, with the computers they can be super precise with this stuff.. i'm trying to get a set of vortec sent thru there to smooth them up and improve flo a lttle, they can hog them out real big if you need it tho. its neat stuff...for some reason there are alot of different automotive manufacture plants here...theres a place that does all the brakelines for just about everything, a place that pors cast and a machine shop next door that machines the raw forgings and they are alot of them and they all maintain from automotive contracts for different parts and what not

the brakeline place told me they do all the oem for the big 3 and have several over seas cars they make lines for just got busy gotta go
 
Okay, so it is a port and polish job from hell basically huh? cool ! What kind of money are we talking about here, not including shipping.... on a set of stock exhust manifolds? A Benamin, a few Benjamins, what? How does the cost compair to a set of mid grade headers? What about performance gains compaired to headers? This deffinatly sounds interesting.....:thinking: :thinking: :thinking: :thinking:
 
dont get headers, ur body has to much flex and that will **** up ur header alliegnment with ur exhuast system. stick with manifolds or just replace the ones u have.
 
TBlaz8 said:
dont get headers, ur body has to much flex and that will **** up ur header alliegnment with ur exhuast system. stick with manifolds or just replace the ones u have.


Rubber exhaust hangers allow the exhaust to flex with the motor. Dont let the exhaust shop weld the exhaust up with rods alone.
 
TheAustrian said:
thanks for explaination. But is there any benefit other then smoothen the pulse of the exhaust? I heard that also the sound changes, becomes smoother because the left and the right zylinder bank become mixed. true?
That is true it also helps in the scavenging where it doesnt have to push so much to get the exhaust out. They do sound better also.
 
Ressurection said:
Got a very negative opinion of headers from an exhaust shop recently. His issues are the finish (unless you spend a boatload of $), and cracking at the collector, etc.

He also said the performance gains are nominal.

What are your thoughts?

haven't read the whole thread, so if I'm repeating someone, my apologies...

You get what you pay for.. simple...

An exhaust shop probably hates headers, why? Because 90% of the public is cheap... Buy some $100, thin wall, thin flange headers, and your gonna have probs.. Besides they sound like poo.. And I'd bet thats what yahoo's have them installing all the time...

Buy a thick-walled, thick-flanged qualtiy header, beginning of a good exhaust system... Anyone not believing the beginning of performance gains isn't with headers is kidding themselves... Or too cheap to buy a nice header...

While performance gains MAY be nominal with a stock motor, and I do say MAY, because every motor I've seen definitely feels a gain from a set of headers... And it is certainly step 1 in performance, a good cam and set of heads will make it really wake up...

The only "over the counter" tuned set of headers I've ever seen is Hookers super comps... They are a primary tube length tuned header and this helps tremendously... Shorties imo, are pretty worthless..

A set of Super Comps coated in Jett Hott? = 1 sweet header.....
 
I tend to agree, I got new 3" tail section from http://www.grabthepower.com/pipes-front.html#gm

new high flow Cat, and edelbrock shorty's. At the time I was running 33" with 3:73. They burb would really bottom out going over the Cascade Mtn's w/ 4 dudes, dog and all our hunting gear. Headers made a difference, adding a chip made a marked improvement even with adding 35"s down the road. Now I just need to regear so I can use OD again!
 
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