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Heating a shop

Blue85

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Anybody else have problems getting insurance on a shop or garage with a wood stove? I checked with multiple companies and they all say that there is no policy available for a garage or shop (that has a door a car can fit in) with solid fuel heat. Not just an extra charge - no such policies. Yet I see smoke coming out of pole barns across the state. Do they just claim that a vehicle never enters the building? I don't know why an open propane flame is safer, but apparently is has to do with the building being occupied all the time or not. You can "turn off" the propane, but wood, pellets, etc. keep going for some time.

If I do hook up the woodstove and have a fire, do they have to prove it was from the woodstove? A basic chimney could be used to vent a furnace or other things besides just connecting to a wood burner.
 
I use electric
It keeps things warm and dry and I can set it and forget it
 
If I do hook up the woodstove and have a fire, do they have to prove it was from the woodstove? .



I would guess no.. as long as it's notated afterward that the building had one in it, I'm betting it would void any claim, whether that started it, or a midget with a molatov cocktail...
 
I'm hoping when I have to renew my house insurance and they inspect the property,they dont have any issues with the wood stoves in the house or the garage...they are listed on the policy,but the house ones were noted as being "back up emergency heating only"...not used on a regular basis..My garage being metal,I guess makes them less anal about using a wood stove in it..

First I'll have to get a roof on the house,the company I'm insured with currently,and all I called around to looking for quotes,all refuse to even sell a policy to anyone with a roof thats over 20 years old..unless perhaps its a slate or metal roof..

Insurance sucks--you can lose all you own without any,and if you pay for it,your chances of collecting on a claim are often slim,or they'll pay out as little as possible..then cancel your policy for being a "bad risk"...seems either way,you lose..and they "win"..
 
If you wanna be on the up and up it seems don't use wood. Insurance just loooooooves to screw us wood guys over. But no, go ahead and install even a ventless propane heater, that's juuuust fine. IT's BS I tells ya.


Maybe shop around for new insurance for someone who will cover wood stoves in a shop?
 
I've looked at expanding my hot water baseboard unit out to my garage with a small bypass and some radiators mounted up high with a second ceiling fan. The blazer doesn't fit in there so I don't do much work inside. A friend offered me a second oil boiler and I've considered covering it to waste oil too, but I haven't made up my mind if it's worth the effort yet.
 
A guy I know has a 20x30 garage,stick built,insulated and sheet rocked & plastered walls--he uses a propane water heater (60 gallon) and baseboards with a circulator pump to heat the garage,and he uses a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze & water just like a car would,so he can leave it shut off without fear of it freezing and cracking anything...he claims a 300lb propane tank will keep it at 55+ degrees all winter and still have a bit less than half a tank left..

I think insurance companies are in cahoots with big oil and electric companies--why else would they "hate" wood heat so much--because wood is either free or cheap,thats why..sure,wood stoves might be more likely to start a fire if not used properly or with faulty stove pipes,etc,but in my opinion,no more so than a fossil fuel heater ,or even an electric one--those can kill you with gas fumes,explode if the furnace controls are faulty,and electric wires can short or get hot and start fires too...

My biggest dislike about wood stoves is you cant just load one up,then leave--you cant trust them..a gust of wind can backdraft sparks out into the room,a log can roll over and knock the door open,I have also seen mine start roaring like a train during high winds and turn it cherry red in a few minutes time..They really need to be "supervised"...

I'd like to find a coal & wood stove,coal is still fairly cheap,and easier to deal with than wood..coal gas can snuff you too though,if you get a backdraft..
 
I have been told I am nuts, but this is my idea for a shop heater.

Around here, nobody rebuilds pallets. They are free all over the place. I want to build an out door structure in can slide the pallet into, have it fall into the burn area. The exhaust and heat would be plumbed into the building into 55 fallon drums full of river rocks. Heat them up for a couple hours, stays hot for the day.

:dunno::dunno:
 
Pallets are plentiful here for free too,but you have to be at the right place at the right moment to score them--first come first served at most places giving them away..

I grab some when I can,they make good kindling and nothing burns hotter than the oak and swamp maple ones..just have to watch out for ones treated with methyl bromide (insecticide),many from overseas are...some are marked "MB" in stencil if they were treated..some aren't..

I think I harmed my lungs from inhaling smoke from the treated ones,when my stove backdrafted in the garage many times...I'd doze off in the "BTU room" watching TV or listening to music,and would wake up with the room "fogged" with smoke--just before I was about to pass out (and maybe not ever wake up again!)..:eek:

Best garage heater a friend and I built was a huge "stove" out of a 275 gallon oil tank,we stood it up on the small end,cut out a large door,hinged it and welded on angle iron around the door opening and the door ,so it would not warp..
We cut about a dozen 2" holes on the top part of it with a hole saw,and slid 2" pipes thru both sides,and welded them into the tank...the flames licked the pipes on the way out the smokepipe and it threw tremendous heat...we made the door opening about 2 feet off the bottom,and made a grate out of an old wire rack from a junked freezer...we added brake rotors,drums,and some scrap crankshafts from old mower engines he had lying around of the bottom under the grate,and shoveled some 3/4" crushed stone on top of it all...

We used to put a fan behind the pipe openings ,the heat coming off the thing would melt your eyebrows 5 feet away once you got it going good--which was its only downfall,it took quite a while to get the thing going good--and once it was going,it ate wood like crazy..

You could stuff a good sized tree in it in one night..we used to burn pallets in it mostly,just had to cut them in two once,to fit thru the door...his "garage" was a barn originally,and was huge,with high ceilings,but we had no trouble keeping it 70+ degrees in there as long as we had enough wood..once you got the thing hot it threw heat for hours though...
 
I think I'll check with Farmer's. They seem to have some policies better suited for this. I have a woodstove sitting on a pallet, but there is no chimney. There is a ceiling mounted propane heater already installed and plumbed to a propane tank outside (maybe 100 gallon?). It's inside a strange insulated room they built with a stove, sink, toilet and table. I kind of wonder if somebody lived in it. I will look at the BTU ratings and see if that could do the job of the whole 30x40 shop.

An outside wood boiler would be awesome, but that's more money than I want to mess with right now.
 
Keep your eyes out for a used one. A lot of older couples sell them when they get tired of cutting wood and feeding them.

I don't have anywhere to get wood so I'd have to buy it and then cut, split, stack ect and there are no cost savings for me over the oil boiler I have now. I can add a section of exchanger to the boiler and then it'll be rated to do hot water for the house and be able to add the radiators in the garage.
 
I think insurance companies are in cahoots with big oil and electric companies--why else would they "hate" wood heat so much

My biggest dislike about wood stoves is you cant just load one up,then leave--you cant trust them..a gust of wind can backdraft sparks out into the room,a log can roll over and knock the door open,I have also seen mine start roaring like a train during high winds and turn it cherry red in a few minutes time..They really need to be "supervised"...

I think you answered your own question. Insurance companies are just a spread of risk. Those risks are calculated risks and when you have something that puts you outside of the normal risk category it's easier for them to just skip your risk as opposed to absorbing additional risk without additional premium to offset it.
 
It looks like the heater is 40,000 btu.

PICT0932.jpg


PICT0933.jpg
 
We had a wood stove in my dads barn.
Pro's:
wood is cheap free
Only used when is needed
Can warm up coffee, and food :)



Cons:
Floor space
Takes awhile to get up to heat
Cleaning
Triple wall pipe is stupid expensive
No thermostat


In my old mans barn(40x60) a small box stove
41H-YkTVwyL._SY300_.jpg


Plus a 100k btu torpedo made it comfortable to work in. Sweatshirt/ long sleves. Insulation only on the ceiling(R12).


Now in my barn I have plastic on the ceiling and the 100kbtu torpedo gets it decent for me. Granted I did great stuff every single place I could to prevent drafts. Next year I will plumb in natural gas and hang the 150k btu heater from the ceiling and do foam board or r12 across the trusses. On a side note I love working in a hoodie, it is the most comfortable and best thing to fabricate in.


Luke after driving on 96 yesterday you are right there are tons of people with just standard black pipe coming out of the side of the barn. Its those people that make the insurance rates go up/ not cover. Just add a rider on your current home insurance plan that covers the cost of the barn, plus anything inside. Thats what I did, and no inspections etc where needed. If you do it right using stainless triple wall, the correct pass throughs etc you will be fine.


I would sell the stove and get another roof hanging unit since you have propane out there already. They can be had on craigslist for about 200 all day long.
 
We had a wood stove in my dads barn.
Pro's:
wood is cheap free
Only used when is needed
Can warm up coffee, and food :)



Cons:
Floor space
Takes awhile to get up to heat
Cleaning
Triple wall pipe is stupid expensive
No thermostat


In my old mans barn(40x60) a small box stove
41H-YkTVwyL._SY300_.jpg


Plus a 100k btu torpedo made it comfortable to work in. Sweatshirt/ long sleves. Insulation only on the ceiling(R12).


Now in my barn I have plastic on the ceiling and the 100kbtu torpedo gets it decent for me. Granted I did great stuff every single place I could to prevent drafts. Next year I will plumb in natural gas and hang the 150k btu heater from the ceiling and do foam board or r12 across the trusses. On a side note I love working in a hoodie, it is the most comfortable and best thing to fabricate in.


Luke after driving on 96 yesterday you are right there are tons of people with just standard black pipe coming out of the side of the barn. Its those people that make the insurance rates go up/ not cover. Just add a rider on your current home insurance plan that covers the cost of the barn, plus anything inside. Thats what I did, and no inspections etc where needed. If you do it right using stainless triple wall, the correct pass throughs etc you will be fine.


I would sell the stove and get another roof hanging unit since you have propane out there already. They can be had on craigslist for about 200 all day long.

The stove I have in the furnace room in the basement is identical to the one pictured!...that little thing cranks some serious heat,despite it being rather crude,it has seams with gaps 1/8" wide,so its by no means air tight,but I can get 4-5 hours burn time out of one load using good sized logs split in two..
I have a "spare" one just like it stashed in my garage someone gave me when they moved too...

The upstairs stove is the type that sits in front of a fireplace,and has a sheet metal block off plate to cover the opening,a "Hearth-Mate".....its airtight,and looks nice,but I'm rather dissapointed with the thing,I think the draft sucks because the fireplace flue is way too large for it--it has a 6" pipe opening on the rear of it,but the flue is big enough that I could probably crawl up it,I'm guessing 16x24" maybe...we removed the damper from the fireplace before installing it...as the instruction manual said too..

I've read this design is also the worst for soot and creosote build up,due to the chimney flue being too large,and being an "external" chimney,it stays cold and that also reduces the draft...it will backdraft easily if the winds are strong,especially if they are from the north east,which we get here often during winter storms..seems like it only throws good heat if you use bone dry wood and the wind is favorable...it is lined with fire brick too,I think that doesn't let it get hot enough in a way..

The box stove down in the basement drafts fine no matter what the wind does,even though it shares a flue with the oil furnace--I've read that can reduce soot build up because the flue stays warm due to the oil furnace running ,but codes have changed in recent years,they most likely wont allow a "shared flue" in new construction..

One thing I learned in my garage,is to not put the stove right near the chimney,if you want the most heat from it--I built a concrete chimney with tile liners and plumbed one of my 55 gallon drums into it,using only a foot or so of pipe,and an elbow...the thing seemed to me it wasn't throwing as much heat as it should,despite burning well and getting the drum red hot at times..
I thought possibly one stove just was not enough to heat the huge steel quonset,it is a lot of cubic feet and uninsulated..

When I added a second drum stove in a small room about 12 feet from the first stove,I used a 6" tee to plumb both into the chimney,and ran 12 feet of pipe to the stove...first time I lit the stove in the small room,I was amazed how much it also heated the main part of the garage,just from the heat coming off the stove pipe...I would say to use at least ten feet of pipe,even though its not cheap now (regular black steel pipe,not the triple walled stuff),because it'll extract a lot of heat that otherwise goes right up the flue...It is a pain to clean the pipe out yearly,and replace it every 3 years or so though..

If I were able to afford oil or propane I would not bother with wood any more,but since I have access to lots of wood and its free,I may as well keep using it...however,if my athsma gets any worse,I may have no choice but to ditch the wood,and go with something else...here electricity is pretty reasonable,unlike other nearby towns,it would probably cost less to have electric heat than oil here once oil hit 3.50 a gallon...
 
In my old garage I had a ceiling mounted radiant natural gas heater. It was awesome - like working in in the sun. It also did a great job of warming the floor, whereas torpedo and other construction heaters seems to cook the ceiling while you can still see your breath on a creeper. Without a lot of insulation it seems like the radiant heat must the be best option (barring putting hot water in the floor).

I like the idea of wood because I can cut it myself and it seems cheaper, but when I count my labor, it's hard to say for sure. I want to get away from carrying 20lb cylinders around, both for the hassle and the cost. I pay like $19 for 20lbs (at a real fill site, not an exchange), which is getting close to $4/gallon. My propane provider sells for about $2/gallon from their truck, so I just cut my costs in half by using the 120 gallon tank next to the shop. (Nevermind what a rip off Blue Rhino and other propane exchanges are, since they only give you 15lbs in your "20lb" tank).
 

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