HELP! Ignition Lock Cylinder problems after Theft Attempt

[DizturbedOne]

77 GMC Jimmy... I've been trying to get a job I have a line on for TWO DAYS but I have no transportation right now because of this!

After they tried to get it, the inside of the cylinder just pulled right out in my hand when I pulled on the bezel, key and all. So now the inner guts of the lock cylinder are stripped out, leaving only the sleeve inside the column.

Today I find it's the kind with the tab I need to depress to pull the sleeve out. Upon every attempt though, it will NOT let the sleeve slide free. So I dig up the book and it wants it in "off" to do this. Without any inner part of the lock cylinder (the whole piece the key would ride in) I can't interact with the sleeve itself in a normal fashion, although I can get the ignition to change positions via the wheel lockpin. Whatever position I try it in I can't get the sleeve to slide out at all.

I'm not sure I'm doing this correctly or why I'm having such problems. It seems like it should just pull out at this stage. Has anyone run into this problem before? Figured it out without having to pull the whole column apart? I'm a little intimidated at pulling the whole column apart, and right now I can't afford to buy anything I might break. So I'm taking it slow and trying again tommorow after poking around on here. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated, you're literally helping my family on this.

 

[xanthias]

How to rebuild the column (follow steps 1 - 4 to fix your problem). Before you start, borrow or buy a steering wheel puller ($10) and a lock plate compressor tool ($10). The ignition switch module is NAPA P/N KS6634:

http://www.texas4x4.org/showthread.php?t=18823

 

[4X4HIGH]

Yep, xanthias nailed it, there is a lock screw that holds the key cylinder into the coulmn. You just need to remove the steering wheel, lock plate, turn signal switch, then you can remove the lock screw and pull the cylinder out. It's a pretty easy job if you have the lock plate holding tool so you can remove that snap ring that holds it down since it's under spring tension.

 

[DizturbedOne]

Thanks for trying, but I have the kind with the spring loaded tab to depress in the column. There is no screw holding it in place.

I already have the wheel and lockplate off, I'm working under the turn signal switch right now. You see the middle part with the key and the ears to turn the key? THAT is what is stripped out of mine. The sleeve part (with the arrow saying "lock cylinder set") is still in the truck though.

They want me to turn the key to certain positions in order to remove it, which I cannot do due to the key cylinder part being stripped out. Any suggestions?

 

[4X4HIGH]

Thanks for trying, but I have the kind with the spring loaded tab to depress in the column. There is no screw holding it in place.

I already have the wheel and lockplate off, I'm working under the turn signal switch right now. You see the middle part with the key and the ears to turn the key? THAT is what is stripped out of mine. The sleeve part (with the arrow saying "lock cylinder set") is still in the truck though.

They want me to turn the key to certain positions in order to remove it, which I cannot do due to the key cylinder part being stripped out. Any suggestions?

I don't understand that comment. Every GM column i've ever worked on has a screw holding the lock cylinder in place. Sacramento is a little too far for me to travel to fix this for you (about 2 hours away) at the moment otherwise i would fix it for you. I've worked on thousands of these columns over the years.

The only time i've worked on a lock cylinder that required the key and to move it into a certain position was when the ignition lock cylinder is the dash mounted style and then the key needs to be put into the accessory position AFTER installing a paperclip into a small hole through the bezel in order for the "key portion" to be removed from the rest of the body so that the mounting threaded flange could be removed to remove the rest from the dash.

 

[rufusbooth]

I believe to OP is correct about having to depress a spring loaded clip to remove the cylinder. There were two different locks used. one from 73 - 77 and another from 78-91. the later model is indeed held in by a screw.

I have a 73 and I seem to remember having to depress the pin but it has been years.

Here are pictures of the two style switches:

Left is the old style, notice the flat black bar that is perpendicular to the bottom of cyl? That flat bar needs to be pushed in before the cyl can come out. the only way to push in that button is to rotate the key to a particular position. I am not sure what the position was but I seem to remember it was the acc position. Another words push in and turn back.

This is a hard one without being able to see the extent of the damage but I have a feeling there is still a chunk of rotatable cyl in there. If you can rotate it at all try pushing in in and back then see if you can remove it.

Pics of the damage might help in this case.

 

[xanthias]

Could you come from the back and use the ignition switch actuator rack to turn what's left of the key cylinder?

 

[DizturbedOne]

THANKS YOU GUYS! I got the old sleeve out!

That pic Xanthias posted (thought different from mine) helped me alot and I got it changed to the correct position by pulling the column jacket off and moving that gear itself from the back. It was still munched up pretty good and the gear was bent out of center though, making it all a very tough yet delicate process.

Rufus: It was sheared clean off perfectly, so I couldn't rotate it with a screwdriver without destroying the plastic actuator gear in the middle, which is why I was stuck. I had no rotatable parts, just the sleeve itself and a little piece that sheared off the end and was wrapped around the plastic gear. Yeah, it was a bad spot to be in! lol

What a P.I.T.A. this is being but I'm lucking out so far even though it's taking forever.

But...

NEW PROBLEM!

Now I can't get the plastic gear that mates to the ignition cylinder and actuates the rack on the rod to the ignition switch to line up with the key positions. There only seems to be two ways you can index the gear with the new cylinder, but I can't line it up with the rack smoothly and correctly. One way it goes too far forward and won't lock the key so I can remove it (although the truck will start and turn off at least). The other way is too far back and won't allow it to start (though I can get it to "run").

I'm confused. Is there a procedure or certain way to line these up correctly? Mine is different from Xanthias' pic btw, my ignition rack is upside down and mates DOWN onto the gear rather than UP to it. My steering lockpin sits beside the rack instead of above the gear also. I'm getting rather frustrated...

But you guys are about to convert me to a supporting member the way this thread is going! lol

 

[79rustyk10]

On my 74 nova, I had to drill a hole to get to the retainer.

 

[4X4HIGH]

IIRC the difference is tilt versus non tilt on the parts being different. On a tilt column i believe the key pulls the ignition switch rod up to start the engine and on a non tilt column it pushes the rod down to start the engine.

 

[DizturbedOne]

IIRC the difference is tilt versus non tilt on the parts being different. On a tilt column i believe the key pulls the ignition switch rod up to start the engine and on a non tilt column it pushes the rod down to start the engine.

EXACTLY! Mine is reversed and pushes it down, it's a non-tilt column. I just can't quite get the gear to line up with the rack on the rod so the key works correctly.

 

[rufusbooth]

glad you got it out! Thinking this through make sure that the rod that runs from the rack down to the ignition switch on the lower column is not bent. damage from these yahoos trying to steel our trucks can travel to some strange places. If that bar is bent the effective length would be too short and the truck would make it to run but might not be long enough to actually engage the starter.

Also, keep in mind that the electrical switch on the bottom is adjustable. you might be able to configure the key so that it can be removed but not quite start the truck. then loosen the two bolts holding the switch and slide it up. that will allow the switch to engage the starter.

Forgive me if I have things backwards as I have never worked on a non tilt steering system. All mine have been tilt.

Cheers,

Rufus

P.S. welcome to the brotherhood of CK5. Best 25 a year I have ever spent.

 

[DizturbedOne]

Just wanted to post an update with the fix for the next poor soul that can't find anything on this. I saw alot of people asking when I searched, but no answers. If you didn't (or couldn't) mark your sector gear upon uninstallion, or if you weren't the one to tear down the column, this is how you clock the ignition workings easily without having to "stab it until you nab it"

This is for non-tilt columns. Tilt columns look similar, but the parts are mounted upside down.

This is all assuming you have the wheel off, ignition cylinder out, turn signal lever pulled over the steering shaft, and the mast jacket beneath it is off the column. This is the part that houses the sector gear and ignition cylinder, and we must mate it correctly to the rack on the lower half of the column.

1 Make sure your vehicle and column shifter (if equipped) are both in park

2 Locate the toothed side of the sector gear towards the ignition switch "rack" if the mast jacket was on the column

3 Line up your lock cylinder in the hole, insert, and rotate it clockwise to full stop (as if you were cranking) and back again to seat the sector gear into the cylinder

4 Back at full clockwise stop on the lock cylinder, make sure the teeth of your sector gear would mesh with the teeth on the rack if you slid the mast jacket on. If not, pull the lock cylinder and turn the sector gear 180 degree's and verify again.

5 Put the lock cylinder back to full clockwise lock and pull your lock cylinder out, making sure to note the position of the sector gear.

6 Advance the sector gear 1/4 turn clockwise and once again insert the lock cylinder, making sure it is first rotated to full stop in a clockwise direction.

7 Turn your lock cylinder counter clockwise until it is fully seated and mated with the sector gear. There will be about an 1/8th of an inch gap between the lock bezel and the column if fully seated and installed correctly

8 Make sure your steering lock pin is installed in the ignition rack and slide the mast jacket on while guiding the steering lock pin and rack through thier respective holes in the jacket's casting. While doing this make sure the ignition cylinder is at full clockwise stop.

9 While the teeth of the sector gear and the rack meet, hold the key forward in the ignition and "skip" the first little half-tooth of the sector gear over the first tooth on the rack. Then roll it back smoothly as the rack mates into the gear while you slide the mast jacket the rest of the way on.

10 Use the four 8mm bolts to secure the mast jacket firmly in place, check for full operation, and you're done!*

This is tried, true, and triple checked on my own column, but who knows what's happened in these vehicles over all these years or what may have changed year to year... So ALWAYS check for full operation before complete reinstallation.

*If you have an automatic transmission make sure the wheel lock pin protrudes about a half inch from the mast jacket when the key is in the "lock" position and vehicle is in "Park". Make sure key can be set to lock position and REMOVED and that the vehicle will crank before putting it back together. If you cannot remove your key or crank the vehicle it is not clocked properly and you will have to start over. Retard the sector gear by a tooth if the key won't lock. Advance it by one if it won't crank the vehicle. If the key seems to work correctly through all ranges and it still won't crank, adjust your ignition switch at the base of the column to match your new parts lineup. Mine was out of whack due to previous owners not doing the column right and the ignition switch was mounted a little loosely giving them an intermittent no start situation, yours could be the same way.

 

[twoslo4five0]

question on this, The little tab that goes into the steering wheel allows you to remove the key in the lock position correct? Mine broke and im trying to figure out if I remove it can I get the key out and by pass the lock or will the ignition switch no longer work? Any of this make sense?