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Help, starter grinding!!!

chevy111

chevy111

1/2 ton status
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Ok I am having issues with my starter. When I have my coil unplugged it will crank the engine. But as soon as I put the coil back on it want to grind. I have a 383 with 10 to 1 compression. What I have heard on here this is common and the starter likes to flex. I have heard in order to stop this there is a starter brace. Well I know what the starter brace looks like but have no idea how it bolts up. Does anyone have a picture or an idea where I can find something showing how this bolts up. I cant even start my new engine because of this.
 
it sounds like your timing is too far advanced. Compression isn't the problem, otherwise it would have the same problem with the coil unplugged. Retard the timing a few degrees and see what you get. I don't know how anybody else does it w/o a timing light, but I retard it until it turns over smoothly, then drive it and retard it until it doesn't ping under load. Timing lights are easier. Set it about 8-12 degrees advanced.
 
Does it matter at all about the cam our anything else for timing? I put number one top dead center and set the rotor in the distributor to number one. I made sure it was on the compression stroke. The problem is I cant turn it over more then a few seconds when it has the coil hooked up. It will turn over then grind. I ordered the support bracket I just dont know how to bolt it up to the block. I hear alot about starter problems on here due to this issue. Can you give me the best way to get it timed and ready to fire without a timming light. I have heard the timming can cause the engine to bump back and break the starter nose. I just want it to fire up without much work from the starter.
 
There are also starter shims but I don't think that is your issue. How did you make sure it was on the compresson stroke? (intake valve open, then close, TDC)
 
Shims could be the problem, but if it wasn't a problem before, then they're not. If this is a new motor, you could try the shim idea. They make actual shims, but I've used other stuff before. Stick a penny by the outside bolt and see if that fixes it.

best way to make sure it's on compression stroke is to remove the spark plug and stick your thumb over the hole. Rotate the motor by hand to find TDC, you may need to remove all plugs to do this. once you think you're there, stick a wire through the plug hole and adjust motor as needed. You were correct about pointing the rotor to number 1. There is only two ways that the distributor will go in. The right way and 180 out.

As a note, where the rotor is pointing is also where the number 1 wire will go on the cap. order of 18436572
 
yes they make several different sizes of shims. i know that was my problem but i also have a slow bendix pulling it back so that could be it too
 
I had this motor in my Nova running before. Its only got about 60 miles on it and it would fire up until one day the starter started grinding. I thought it was the flywheel but the flywheel is fine. I did only have about 60 miles on the motor when it did this. Also the bolts were too long so I had to use about 4 washers. Now as far as the engine and rotor if I can get the timing mark lined up on the indicater what number should it be on 0? It has numbers going out from 0 in each direction. Then just rotate the rotor till one is perfectly aligned? Still no one has any info on the support bracket for the starter? though?
 
get rid of the washers and buy the right bolts. That could be your problem right there.

0 is TDC. looking at it, the left is advanced. The motor will be at TDC, or at the top of the exhaust stroke when lined up with that mark. TDC is what you want. It's when the pressure tries to blow your finger off of the spark plug hole. The rotor should be pointing to number 1 at that point. If it's not, then it should be pointing 180 degrees away. If it's pointing at neither then you don't have the distributor installed correctly.
 
I did point the distributor to number 1 also when it blew my finger off. I think im going to pull the cap and make sure its right on number 1 when the marks on zero. It may be that the distributor is turned to much. Which way do you turn the distributor to retard the timming. Clockwise or counter. Do you think it would help to retard the timming to get it start easier?
 
Advancing the timing causes the sparkplug to spark before it reaches TDC, retarding it causes it to spark after. Cam does affect this. Stock sbc is 8ish degrees advanced. I've always ran between 10-14. When you advance it you'll also have to drop your idle. 800 RPM stock, higher with upgrades. You can start at TDC if you'd like and advance from there. w/o a light it's going to be all by ear, that's why you test it under load, i.e. WOT uphill. if it pings, it's too advanced. You can stand on the brake give it throttle to simulate this until you think you have it right. Then take a road test.
 
icebone111 said:
I did point the distributor to number 1 also when it blew my finger off. I think im going to pull the cap and make sure its right on number 1 when the marks on zero. It may be that the distributor is turned to much. Which way do you turn the distributor to retard the timming. Clockwise or counter. Do you think it would help to retard the timming to get it start easier?
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retarding it will make it start easier. IIRC rotate the cap clockwise to retard. Now that you mention the washers on your starter though, I think your problem lies there. the more I think of it, the more sense it makes. Double checking your timing won't hurt anything though. Something good to do on a new engine anyhow.
 
re.

I ordered new bolts for it and a support bracket so im hoping it works. I also replaced the starter because I noticed the teeth had some wear on the starter gear probably from jumping teeth. I also noticed with the way the bolts were in I could even push on the starter and it would flex alittle. Never thought the bolts were an issue as long as it bolted up but now im learning the hard way. Im just crossing my fingers that I dont have to replace the flexplate. it doesnt look like its damaged so I think it will be ok. Ill try the timing also to try and get it to fire. I hope to do all this tomorrow night.
 
your problem does sound like a fast timing issue. I would try adjusting the timing before replacing all those parts. however, the bolts and brace have a huge role in starter performance. on my old truck I broke several starters because they would flex and a brace solved that problem and ever since I got this new truck Ive had to readjust the starter every couple of weeks. new bolts solved that one.
 
Do you have any pics of the brace and how it bolts up. I looked at the block and cant really tell where it goes. Im waiting for the brace to arrive tomorrow.
 
icebone111 said:
Do you have any pics of the brace and how it bolts up. I looked at the block and cant really tell where it goes. Im waiting for the brace to arrive tomorrow.
Click to expand...

sorry no pics and I currently dont have one. if you can post a pic of yours when you get it I might be able to expain how it goes. or maybe another member can, I know that someone here told me how to install mine.
 
IF the brace is the same as my 70 was...................

One end of the brace is attached via the top long bolt that holds the starter (round part) to the casting. The other end of the brace is bolted to a threaded boss on the side of the block.
 
re

I saw the bolt on the starter. Just not sure about the block. But I guess I should be able to figure it out today. Any ideas what size bolt and thread goes in the block?
 
Well All was good today. I put new bolts the bracket and did some adjusting to the distributor and turned the key and it fired right up. Thanks for all the help guys!
 
Glad you got her figured out. I just noticed you're from YC. I grew up in Wheatland. Funny
 
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