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Histeer - TRE's Hitting Each Other - Update W/ Question

nvrenuf

nvrenuf

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I'm trying o convert to Histeer and my drag link end and TRE are hitting one another.

OTT arms
NWF crossover
ORD 1.5" tie rod

I had to have the arms drilled/reamed when I got them but this was done by a machine shop and they had my NWF arm to use as a template. I realize the issue is that the holes are too close together but it's done so there's no changing them.

Does any one have a parts catalog with dims that could see if there is a smaller body DRE or TRE that I could use?



 
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The body's are all pretty much the same size. Why did you have the other hole drilled/machined so close to the other?
 
It wasn't intentional. Like I said in the first post, I had an NWF arm with 2 holes that the machine shop was supposed to use as a template. Obviously, a mistake was made when they located one of the holes.
 
Did you talk to the shop about the issue? Maybe they would reimburse you the cost, I don't know how they had a template and still couldn't get it right :confused:.

Either way I don't think I would use them for any future machine work.
 
Russell said:
This will affect your steering too. I'd replace the steering arm and get it done right...
Click to expand...

I don't doubt you but I also don't know - IF (I know, big "if") I were to find ends that cleared how would this hurt my steering?

Simply from a $$ standpoint I don't want to replace the arms. That plus it seems like no one sells spring type arms anymore.
 
375 H&H said:
the holes can be welded up and re-drilled...
Click to expand...

I think I have room to move the inner hole inboard about a 1/4". Any idea where the stopping point is for the inner hole with respect to good vs bad turning leverage?

Just to be sure I'm looking at this right -

Inner hole = drag link
Outer hole = tie rod

Right??
 
I like the welding idea.

If not though, could you fit the tres on the bottom of the arms? I know you would need to drill it out and buy tapered inserts... But it would be cheaper than a new arm..
 
Deuling said:
I like the welding idea.

If not though, could you fit the tres on the bottom of the arms? I know you would need to drill it out and buy tapered inserts... But it would be cheaper than a new arm..
Click to expand...

I looked at going from the bottom but either rod would hit the springs.
 
From an engineering standpoint, if you were to get it together and aligned, it will drive fine in a straight line. The problem is since the steering arms have a slightly different moment (distance from pivot to dre hole), when you turn the wheel, the tires won't stay parallel which will affect tire wear and steering feel. The effect will be small assuming the hole is probably no more than 1/2" off, but will be more pronounced the farther you turn the wheel.
 
rebelgregory said:
From an engineering standpoint, if you were to get it together and aligned, it will drive fine in a straight line. The problem is since the steering arms have a slightly different moment (distance from pivot to dre hole), when you turn the wheel, the tires won't stay parallel which will affect tire wear and steering feel. The effect will be small assuming the hole is probably no more than 1/2" off, but will be more pronounced the farther you turn the wheel.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. So, if I move the holes on one arm, I need to do both. Great....
 
Heim Joint on the tie rod? May be smaller diameter to clear...
 
nvrenuf said:
I don't doubt you but I also don't know - IF (I know, big "if") I were to find ends that cleared how would this hurt my steering?

Simply from a $$ standpoint I don't want to replace the arms. That plus it seems like no one sells spring type arms anymore.
Click to expand...


It depends on which link is mis-aligned.

If it is the drag link which is in the wrong spot then you'll have issues with either not having enough steering wheel rotation or too little. I have this problem with my Tahoe. Ideally you want the distance from the center of your sector shaft to the center of the drag link hole on the pitman arm to be the same length as the distance from the center of the upper kingpin to the center of the drag link hole on the steering arm. A factor of 1.1:1 of pitman arm to steering arm lengths is ok, or a pitman arm about 1/2 an inch longer than the steering arm. This just means you'll hit the steering stops on the axle before you hit the internal steering stops in the steering box without costing you any steering angle. The pitman arm being too short will mean you hit the stops in the box before the stops on the axle which means you will not turn as sharp.

If it is an issue with the tie rod hole being in the wrong spot then as mentioned above your ackerman angles won't be correct which will cause tire scrubbing which gets worse as you turn and potentially could turn into an issue with a tire grabbing and causing funny handling while turning which could be pretty dangerous on a slick surface.

Typically folks aim to have 6" of tie rod stroke when running hi steer. IIRC, that means you want 6" from the center of the kingpin to the center of the drag link hole for a D60 to achieve 32 degrees of steering.

Where all this gets important is when you add hydraulic assist later on down the road. You must have your steering box and axle stops lined up and your ram limited to the exact same stroke as your tie rod or you run the risk of the ram either limiting your steering or applying so much force after hitting a stop that it breaks something (steering knuckles usually...)
 
Wow, that's great info Russell - Thank you! :thumb:

I have been talking to Kert and he's going to fix them for me. Plans are to send both arms to him to weld up and punch new holes.
 
Ok, I need to nail down some measurements to get these arms fixed. Based on Russell's info I know where the drag link hole should go but what about the tie rod hole? Is it as simple as far enough apart for the TRE's to clear one another or is there a formula?

Steering arm hole placement

Current:
Drag link hole = 7" from king pin center
Tie rod hole = 5" from king pin center

Corrected:
Drag link hole = 6" from king pin center (verified my pitman am is 6.5" ctr to ctr)
Tie rod hole = ??" from king pin center

Does anybody have an arm you can measure the center to center distance between the holes?
 
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