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How far off does camber have to be to cause pull?

y5mgisi

y5mgisi

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Im tryin g to figure out why my 78 (d44 front. all stock) pulls hard to the right. Its done it the whole time i have owned. I have checked the toe and it was dead even so i adjusted it to 1/8" toe in. Which made no difference. I also replaced the driver side ball joints which were very worn. THat also made no difference.

The truck pulls pretty hard. You have to keep a constant pressure on the wheel to keep it heading right. If you let go of the wheel, it doesn't quite "dart" to the right, but it goes right. And not just a slight slow drift. Somewhere between a dart, and a slow drift. MAybe call it a hard drift. Anyway, the front end seems to be in pretty good shape. The tires appear to be perfectly straight up and down with zero camber. Also the truck stops straight with no pull from the breaks.

So my main question really is, if my camber looks perfect, could it actually be bad enough to cause such a significant pull?
 
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It would take a lot of camber to cause a pull. Check ur tire pressures. If the right side isn't significantly lower like 10 psi or more try rotating the tires. Sometimes a tire will create a pull.
 
Luckily, I have already checked the pressures. In fact right now, I have the left side at 32 and the right side at 40 to help mitigate the issue. And I have had three separate sets of tires and wheels on this truck and it behaved the same with each.
 
Bad tire is often the cause, sometimes they have internal damage like broken belts that can be difficult to spot. A tweaked frame can cause similar issues.
 
Since you said you had three different sets of tires with the same effect I would rule that out. How are your spring bushings. Bad bushings can let the axle wander and turn on its own. Also if a spring pin broke it can let the whole axle move forward and back til it is out of place and turn on its own too. Rear end out of place can pull the front sideways too like rear steer.
 
if me working on it .

full print out of alignment its got now.

if no problems on the print out time for frame machine check to see if bent frame . but if your getting a alignment check and its a newer machine within last 5-7 years the machine can give tons more info and alomost tell you if somthing is out of wack . its called sai angle if i recall. its how square the wheel base is basicly . if its out its like driving a wedge and what ever way it points is the way it will pull.
 
chulisohombre said:
Since you said you had three different sets of tires with the same effect I would rule that out. How are your spring bushings. Bad bushings can let the axle wander and turn on its own. Also if a spring pin broke it can let the whole axle move forward and back til it is out of place and turn on its own too. Rear end out of place can pull the front sideways too like rear steer.
Click to expand...

**** totally missed the 3 sets of tires part.
 
I would break out the tape measure and go all over, writing down the distances from springs, axles, frame, body mounts, etc. to compare left, right and diagonal. Even if you don't have a bent frame or something serious, it might lead you to a broken center pin, trashed bushing or some kind of weird parts swap done by a previous owner.

Something else I didn't see mentioned is that a frozen hub can cause one side to drag - especially if there is a bad U-joint over there. Could also be a caliper that doesn't slide right.
 
Usually tire pull starts right a way. three sets of tires ruled that out.

pull from alignment is generally felt as speed increases.

pull from say a damaged steering box ,increases with engine speed.

what were your caster readings ?

what is the thrust angle measurement ? 4 wheel alignment machines show thrust angle.

SAI steering axis inclination ,is the angle drawn through the ball joints and true vertical at the spindle . and should be close side to side unless some things bent.

I used to see a lot of calipers hanging up causing pull when i did a lot of alignments.usually they would say drift right with the right caliper hanging up,then when you got on the brakes hard pull left.

whats strange is that you say that more pressure in the tires on one side helps to lessen the pull?
 
chulisohombre said:
Since you said you had three different sets of tires with the same effect I would rule that out. How are your spring bushings. Bad bushings can let the axle wander and turn on its own. Also if a spring pin broke it can let the whole axle move forward and back til it is out of place and turn on its own too. Rear end out of place can pull the front sideways too like rear steer.
Click to expand...

Spring bushings appear to be solid. The steering isnt sloppy at all. I Just have to hold the wheel at about 20* to the left for it to go straight. If i let go of the wheel, the wheel returns to 0* and i start heading right. Rear end out of place is possible but there doesnt seem to be anything a miss in the suspension or frame. Not to say there isnt. but everything appears normal.

sweetk30 said:
if me working on it .

full print out of alignment its got now.

if no problems on the print out time for frame machine check to see if bent frame . but if your getting a alignment check and its a newer machine within last 5-7 years the machine can give tons more info and alomost tell you if somthing is out of wack . its called sai angle if i recall. its how square the wheel base is basicly . if its out its like driving a wedge and what ever way it points is the way it will pull.
Click to expand...

I do need to go ahead and get the alignment checked. Just sucks to spend the $75 for them to give me a print out... I dont think it dog sniffs going down the road, but i dont really know. Thats probably where the print out would help most.

Blue85 said:
I would break out the tape measure and go all over, writing down the distances from springs, axles, frame, body mounts, etc. to compare left, right and diagonal. Even if you don't have a bent frame or something serious, it might lead you to a broken center pin, trashed bushing or some kind of weird parts swap done by a previous owner.

Something else I didn't see mentioned is that a frozen hub can cause one side to drag - especially if there is a bad U-joint over there. Could also be a caliper that doesn't slide right.
Click to expand...

I did just have the front end up in the air yesterday for something different, and made sure and gave both front wheels a spin. THey both spin equally free. Im down for the measuring things idea.

blaznjon said:
Usually tire pull starts right a way. three sets of tires ruled that out.

pull from alignment is generally felt as speed increases.

pull from say a damaged steering box ,increases with engine speed.

what were your caster readings ?

what is the thrust angle measurement ? 4 wheel alignment machines show thrust angle.

SAI steering axis inclination ,is the angle drawn through the ball joints and true vertical at the spindle . and should be close side to side unless some things bent.

I used to see a lot of calipers hanging up causing pull when i did a lot of alignments.usually they would say drift right with the right caliper hanging up,then when you got on the brakes hard pull left.

whats strange is that you say that more pressure in the tires on one side helps to lessen the pull?
Click to expand...

Havent gotten a print out on it yet. And yes, i have the pressures adjusted to help fight the pull. If you have low pressure in one tire, it will pull that way. So i have the left side lower than the right to help offset the pull it naturally has going on.

Also i should mention that it does it all speeds.
 
ask them if its any different for just an alignment check for pin pointing your problem .

my shop I use to work at and a few others in town drop 20 bucks if its just a print out since no wrenches were turned . that way the shop and guy still gets a few bucks and you make a good friend contact for the customer and they do come back and remember this favor . :thumb:

and make sure they give you a real print out NOT a 3's only hard for every day guy to read.

this is the kind of print out you want easy to understand by anyone.

alignment%20print.jpg
 
To answer your orig question. About .5 degree split between the two front wheels.

My guess is thrust angle is off
 
Yea, its sounding like you have to have fairly noticable camber issue for it to pull hard. And mine doesnt seem to. It doesnt wear tires funny either, but then, i have only put 8000 miles on it since i have owned it. Between 3 sets of tires.
 
So I just did a little measuring. The driver side axles are about an 1/8"-3/16" closer together than the passenger side. Which to me would seem that it would pull to the driver side. But it pulls to the passenger. I measured u bolt to u bolt. Not hub to hub.
 
will say it again .

alignment print out . . . . :popcorn:

this will tell you every thing . and if the tech is good will also measure wheel base width front / back and also if square front to back .

ubolts are able to angle a little when clamped down if not set perfectly . so i wouldnt use that as a judgment point.
 
Also, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I jacked up the front end and with both tires off the ground I started the truck to make sure the power steering box wasn't pushing itself. It wasn't

In other news, I swapped the shocks from the burb onto the pickup and it does ride a ton better! The rancho 5000s it had on it ride like a brick! It now has the edelbrock ias shocks which I actually think are too soft. But they are perfect as long as it's empty.
 
chulisohombre said:
Since you said you had three different sets of tires with the same effect I would rule that out. How are your spring bushings. Bad bushings can let the axle wander and turn on its own. Also if a spring pin broke it can let the whole axle move forward and back til it is out of place and turn on its own too. Rear end out of place can pull the front sideways too like rear steer.
Click to expand...

just a new guy but x2

my center pin was broke and it was scairy to drive it pulled so bad
 
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