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How to beef up a 10 bolt?

I have access to a 14 bolt FF, I am concerned on what needs to be replaced when swapping the axles. I know this topic has been covered time and time again. Also I would have to get new wheels and new tires to fit these new axles. Just some of the concerns of axle swapping. I am sure that is what runs through everyones minds at first. In a perfect world where I had an endless bank account, of course I would get the best and the biggest parts for my K5. But in reality I have a single income family with almost 2 kids. I get a little extra cash here and there. I usually put it to my K5.
That is basically why I am trying to keep it simple and somewhat stock. I do agree with running it till it breaks. It sure is a lot easier to tell the wife...I need this to get fixed or else truckie no workie, rather than I would really like that on my truck /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
 
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I have access to a 14 bolt FF, I am concerned on what needs to be replaced when swapping the axles. I know this topic has been covered time and time again. Also I would have to get new wheels and new tires to fit these new axles. Just some of the concerns of axle swapping. I am sure that is what runs through everyones minds at first. In a perfect world where I had an endless bank account, of course I would get the best and the biggest parts for my K5. But in reality I have a single income family with almost 2 kids. I get a little extra cash here and there. I usually put it to my K5.
That is basically why I am trying to keep it simple and somewhat stock. I do agree with running it till it breaks. It sure is a lot easier to tell the wife...I need this to get fixed or else truckie no workie, rather than I would really like that on my truck /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

[/ QUOTE ] I hear ya on the fundage shortage. My K5 has been sitting on stock tires with a 6" lift for comming up on 2 years now. I've been gathering parts as I can afford them. [ QUOTE ]
I have access to a 14 bolt FF, I am concerned on what needs to be replaced when swapping the axles.

[/ QUOTE ] You'll need springplates and U-bolts, and a conversion U-joint from Napa. Mostly you'll need matching gears in both the front and rear axles !! /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif If gears are matching, you could get the 8 to 6 lug adaptors ror the rear and keep your current rims.
 
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From what I can tell, the 14SF is just a big 10 bolt. (probably some minor differences in the way things are cast, but not visible from pics I've seen) Carriers look the same as a 10 bolt, at least with the Gov-Lock. I might be negating some of my strength comments from before, but you might see where I'm coming from...the 14SF still has larger components than a 10 bolt, so if the 10 bolt gov-lock has worked for me, I will undoubtedly take a 14SF gov-lock if I can find it.



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The two axels are totally diffrent. One way of looking at it is the (rearends for example) 10 bolt is GM's answer to the Dana 44 and the SF 14blt is GM's answer to the Dana 60 both are similer in size to their counterparts.
 
Jeff,
For the type of weeling Your talking about You sould be fine with what You have. That is if You never plan on going bigger. I would change things up a bit and maybe go with a posi in the front to keep some strees of the drivetrain. A locker in the rear would beef it up. You may still want to upgrade to a 6 lug SF 14 blt if You are unsure( I have one /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif) but for the most part with way You say You wheel You should be ok. I lived with 33's and a Dana 44/12 blt combo for 13 year and never broke one part and it's basicly the same set us as what You have.
 
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Also I would have to get new wheels and new tires to fit these new axles.

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We're all broke too. Don't think you're the only one.

You dont need new tires when you go to a 14 bolt full floater. You will need some 8 lug wheels to fit your current tires. If those happen to be 15" wheels, you'll have to grind the front brakes, but it's no big deal.

Wheels are $40-50 each. With just the money saved on the Detroit for a 14 FF ($350-400) and 10 bolt ($550) you could buy a set of wheels and just go with the FF.

It might appear that the 10 bolts are a cheap route, but really all you've got to do is break your rear 10 bolt one time before any cost benefit is now over. You can always swap in the FF and then do the Detroit locker later, too.
 
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The two axels are totally diffrent

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How so? The 14SF is c-clip retention, and the gov-lock setup uses the same pieces as the 10 bolt.

Yes, it's bigger, my understanding is it is nothing more than a larger 10 bolt along with all corresponding pieces. (bearings, axleshafts, etc)

If there are other differences besides larger everything, what are they? They weren't around before the 10 bolt, so if anything, thats what they were made for/based on, applications that needed more than a 10, but less than a 14FF.
 
I have shaved, locked, all wheel disc, girly ten bolts with 33" rubber attached to them. I haven't broken anything yet.

I did break two sets of spider gears in the rear on the street. It's a side effect of tires spinning and then getting traction.

I wouldn't jump the truck. I wouldn't go rockcrawling with my little tires and LWB. However, they do just fine in the trails, in the mud, and on the sand.

The rear end still gets the same abuse. Only now instead of peglegging and smoking spider gears I get wicked wheelhop. The kind of wheelhop that cleans off the seat of the truck.

The front gets more abuse because I like to crawl up stupid stuff when I'm urban wheeling. For example, I like to crawl up light poles in parking lots. Since my front bumper is a stocker I can't approach the pole straight on. I have to attack it with the tires turned. If that isn't hard on axleshafts, LockRights, and differential carriers then I don't know what is.

However, I still carry plenty of spare parts.
 
One thing I always notice in these 1/2 ton posts is that everyone says to swap the rear axle to a 14BFF. Why? To loose ground clearance and add cost? For me the time it would take to go find a good 14FF, spend a weekend putting it in, buying a locker for it, putting it in, etc. does not make sense if you want to run 35"'s or less. Just go get a locker for your existing rear and some good U joints up front, warn premium hubs w/ a fuse and you will be fine. It would take you considerably less time and money to do these mods. For what you want to do(moderate wheeling), this would be more than suffice. And, if you wanted to later, you could upgrade to 35's and still be fine unless you do lots of rock crawling.

Again, the key point here is if you know you will never go more than 35's.
 
Not sure if that was directed at me or not, but since it appears to be, I'll bite. This is me personally, but since I'm running 33's and intend to dump the rear 10 bolt...

If I wanted to drive around on borrowed time, I'd have used a used 1983 700R4 and an NP208 when I put my truck together.

I didn't build my truck so that I'd have to worry about breaking crap when I'm doing something like accelerating from a light, going up a muddy hill with some wheelspin, or pulling out of my driveway. Thats why I have a 465 and a 205.

You are talking about a 14FF, big difference between 14SF and FF, but you still have some fab work to fit a 6 lugger SF as I understand it.

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. I don't want to carry spare parts when it's as easy as swapping in a different rear axle that costs a 1/2" ground clearance at best, to likely NEVER have to worry about breaking it, at least in a lightly wheeled rig.

You may end up with a "good" or "bad" 10 bolt, and if one works fine for you, great. If you think so highly of them, don't go wheeling with spares! I don't see how anyone can justify the expense of custom axleshafts, spare parts, and hassle of carrying said spare parts, just to save on some fab work and acquisition cost of a different axle.

If the truck is a light wheeling rig, a 1/2" ground clearance lost with the 14SF isn't going to kill you. With the 33's, you'll still have more ground clearance than was stock with 31" tires and the 8.5".

I have no idea how acquriing a 14SF with a gov-lock and the right gears is going to cost more than a new locker fo a 10 bolt and some spare parts. Don't forget the cost of having the gears setup, and if you do it yourself, the time.

A mostly daily driven rig puts (and I'm aking this number up, but you get what I'm saying) 90% of the load on the rear axle, and for me, I'd have a hard time justifying another 10 bolt if/when mine breaks.

I've had no problems with my front (stock) Spicer hubs, but if you've got automatic hubs, thats another accident waiting to happen. Still not more expensive than a locker for a rear 10 bolt and aftermarket hubs with fuses.
 
Dont let all the posts trashing 10 bolts get you down. They really aren't as bad as many here say. As long as you dont run huge tires and have a lead foot. They hold up quite well for most wheeling.
I see you live in Nevada. Me too. Beings there are few paved roads in our state. I put thousands of miles in the dirt on my K5 every year. I pretty much take 4 wheeling for granted. I mean if you want to go anywhere in Nevada you gotta have one.
I run Snow,Sand,Mud,Rocks,Tow my boat to the Coast,Lakes Mead,Tahoe,Powell, ect and use it as a DD and a play toy. All on 10 bolts 33" MT tires 3.73GR with Lockrite Locker.
Do I break it? Of course I do. You cant offroad without breaking things. But My 10 bolts have held up very well. I have no Intention of upgrading to a larger and Heavier axel
The main problem I have is U joints. Because of the stresses they wear out kinda fast. I usually replace them at least yearly just before hunting season.
As Far as Beefing up a 10 bolt. Just put a locker in and some good U joints like NEAPCO or Spicer. I like the non greaseable kind because I think they are a little stronger than the greasable ones.(just my opinion). And be done with it.
Lockrite lockers work good in a 10 bolt and get rid of the spyder gears which are a weak point. They are also fairly cheap and easy to install. If you put a locker in the front use a Lockrite No- Slip. They are a little more forgiving. If you put in lockrites do yourself a favor and replace the thurst washers and pinion pin also.
I would just do the rear first and see how you like it. That should be enough for most anything the desert will throw at ya.
Other than lockers,10 bolts aren't worth spending a bunch of money on. I wouldn't get beefed up axles and stuff. If you need a stronger rear end its cheaper to upgrade to 1 ton stuff.
No need to go with a 3/4 ton 8 lug ten bolt. A ten bolt is a 10 bolt. Just keep your 6 hole wheels.
Wheel hop and spinning and suddnly getting traction will kill a 10 bolt fast. They just cant take the stress. Be easy on the throttle and pick good lines through the rough stuff and with 33" tires you should be just fine.
Use Good quality 85-140 wt lube.
If you have good driving skills. You dont need 1 ton stuff to make up for the lack of them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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If you have good driving skills. You dont need 1 ton stuff to make up for the lack of them.

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All on 10 bolts 33" MT tires 3.73GR with Lockrite Locker. Do I break it? Of course I do.

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Besides axle strength, another reason to go to a 3/4ton setup is the bigger brakes you'll get on these axles.

I had an ARB in my 10-bolt rear for some 5 years, first w/ 32x11.5, then with 33x10.5 AT's. I have a light right foot, but having the locker in the rear was worth every $.

Me personally, I went with a D60 full floater rear axle because of the ARB availability, the 10-bolt ARB from the rear now sits in the front pumpkin. Works great in the slow-speed stuff.
 
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All on 10 bolts 33" MT tires 3.73GR with Lockrite Locker. Do I break it? Of course I do.

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I think you took that statement out of context.
I was refering to my K5 in general and just being honest. I stated in the next sentence. "My 10 bolts are holding up quite well".
I have yet to break my 10 bolts or my lockrite. My drivetrain, besides lockrites + new Thrust washers, pinion pin, and U joints is still the orginal untouched stock and never been rebuilt with 98K on it. I will admit. That after all those miles of towing and hard use my rear pinion bearings make a little noise and I will probabally install new bearings this summer. But that is pretty much normal wear and tear.

If my crack about driving skills offended you. Hey I was only joking. I even put a little grin next to it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Whatever your intent was with your post, my point remains the same. *If* you break things, upgrade, don't just keep breaking and replacing them. Spending more money trying to upgrade the *strength* of a 10 bolt instead of going with an entirely different axle assembly (that penalizes you almost nothing) doesn't make sense.

I've stated my opinion enough, (and since no one can predict at what point a 10 bolt lets loose, everyone just has opinions and experience to go off of) I'm done with it, nothing more valuable to come from this thread unless the poster has more questions. He can make up his own mind what is most cost effective for him, and how he wants to approach his issue. After every opinion is aired, only the owner can make the choice. Having everyone elses opinions, ideas, and experiences will just help the owner make the best choice for her/his self.
 
Dale,

I appreciate your incite. I actually was told about the lockrite locker and thought it would be a good route to go. Also a posi or limited slip whatever you may call it will be a great compliment to the front end. The type of wheeling I do is pretty similar to what you do. As with upgrading to 14ff that will probably be what will happen if and when I break my 10 bolt. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif I believe in running a part till it breaks. For right now though I like the replacing u-joints and other routine maintanence route. I didn't realize this topic would bring up so much debate. It's like the 1/2 ton guys against the 3/4 ton guys /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
Very good points on both sides. I like the debate...just one of the great benefits of entertainment my $25 a year membership provides /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
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