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Hydro-assist questions

M

madmike

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I have a Dana 60, Detroit locked, under the front of my truck and I'm still running stock steering. This isn't working very well, when wheeling, I can barely steer, especially when I need to. The pump really whines a lot too. I need to go hydro-assist. My steering box is already tapped and ported by WTO, and I have a Rockstomper tie rod already installed.

A while back, Kid Jethro had a good post 'hydro-assist for under $100', which I have read and re-read. The hydraulic cylinder he used was from Surplus Center, which I had also stumbled across previously. The cylinder he used had SAE-4 ports, which are roughly equivalent to 1/4". That cylinder is also no longer in stock. Surplus Center has another similar cylinder in stock, but it is equipped with SAE -6 ports, which are roughly equal to 3/8" ports.

Would using the larger line size affect my steering ability/feel? Would it be slower/faster or easier/harder to steer? I'm new to the hydraulic stuff...maybe I would be better off buying a complete set-up, than piecing it together...

Thanks, Mike
 
Within reason a line size change won't change the flow requirements. The flow required is determined by the bore size and the movement of the ram. As long as you have good lines I wouldn't expect a slightly larger line to change feel, effort, or speed. I would be more worried if you went smaller.
 
I specifically went with 3/8" fittings and lines, to ensure line/port size is not the limiting factor in steering response speed.
 
I went with a Rock Logic 4x4 assist ram. A little more spendy than the Surplus Center route, but I know I got a good ram.

390_image1.jpg


and some 1/4NPT lines from a local hydraulic shop for $16/ea
 
you need to read this also...its his install of said products and pump mods..the sequel to 'hydro-assist for under $100'...he did a terrific job showing what he did, i was glad he done the pump mods...i was thinking it was a real PITA thing, but its actually quite simple..thanks kid-j...

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160735

if u read that thread, you'll see he cut the mount off the ram and turned it 90*, so fittings wouldn't be sticking out front, but rather up...if this is a problem for you(cutting/welding),..get 1 like above w/ends like the heims or tre's, so you can turn the ram and place fittings wherever you want them
 
Hydro assist without crossover will likely end up with the box being ripped from the frame.

As an example:

When the driver side tire droops you have trouble steering left (or you may not be able to turn left at all) because the draglink is so short. The ram doesn't care what the mechanical steering or suspension is doing and the hydraulic steering will be able to steer left while the mechanical steering cannot. That's when the part of the frame that used to hold the steering box gives up.
 
38377k5, my truck already does have crossover steering, I neglected to mention that before.
 
does it matter,can you/whats effect if you put ram on the crossover rod rather than the tierod? sorry 4 hijack, but thought you might know yourself...readin up on all this myself...every1/any1..post up any links to threads about hydro..brakes&/or steering...make this the one stop hydro page!
 
madmike said:
38377k5, my truck already does have crossover steering, I neglected to mention that before.
Click to expand...

You said stock steering so that's what I assumed ;)

I don't think bigger lines could be anything but a good thing since the cylinder has a fixed volume to fill anyway but it probably doesn't matter much.

I have the same ram as kidjethro and it works fine, WAY more steering power than without it.
 
blazin_blazer said:
does it matter,can you/whats effect if you put ram on the crossover rod rather than the tierod? sorry 4 hijack, but thought you might know yourself...readin up on all this myself...every1/any1..post up any links to threads about hydro..brakes&/or steering...make this the one stop hydro page!
Click to expand...

You're asking if you have crossover can you mount the ram between the draglink and some kind of mount? I guess, but why? Guys that have high steer have to do something like this (though they usually mount to the tie rod rather than the draglink).

There are tons of threads on hydroboost brakes with hydro assist, a search will find them for you.
 
after see'n the busted knuckles thread... i thinkin would using crossover arm in front of kingpin and have arms long to the back, so tierod would be behind kingpin w/ram..would it help to redistribute power and make knuckle stronger/last longer?...i doubt i'll ever break 1, but if i can make its life easier w/rear tierod, i would go that route when i order my arms
 
blazin_blazer said:
after see'n the busted knuckles thread... i thinkin would using crossover arm in front of kingpin and have arms long to the back, so tierod would be behind kingpin w/ram..would it help to redistribute power and make knuckle stronger/last longer?...i doubt i'll ever break 1, but if i can make its life easier w/rear tierod, i would go that route when i order my arms
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Even having the tie rod in the rear is still high steer.

Having all of the steering force at the top of the knuckle is why the knuckles break (they weren't designed of it).
 
For the question regarding mounting the tierod on the back side of the axle: I don't think it would matter any better because you would still have the same forces acting on the knuckle.

For mounting a hydro cylinder on the draglink vs. the tierod. I suppose you could, but the issues I see is maybe keeping the angles between the cylinder and draglink within reason? The draglink changes it's angle quite a bit as the suspension cycles, where a tierod doesn't change it's operating angle. Also, mounting the cylinder would be harder.
 
blazin_blazer said:
use heim joints..w/ram from frame to x-over drg link???maybe??
Click to expand...

it will not work. as the angle of the draglink changes, the distance from where your ram is mounted to the frame and where it is mounted to the tierod changes.

example with crossover. you are driving straight up an rti ramp. there is no steering wheel position change. the driver side tire will rise and the passenger side will drop. the tires will turn left because the distance from the pitman arm to the steering arm if changing. if you had a ram mounted to the frame and tierod it would cause a bind because the steering box is not moving fluid from one side of the ram to the other. something has to give. the frame, a knuckle, the tierod.


the tierod is the ideal place since it moves in one plane. you will still experience some binding but the forces are distributed between the tierod and both knuckles.

my setup has -6 fittings and 3/8" hoses.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201439&highlight=hydro
 
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