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Hydro vs. Crossover, Convince Me of the Way to Go

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A sway bar is out of the question with crossover.



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GM factory sway bar is out of the question, doesn't mean a swaybar is.
 
Well, I did some research a while back.

I run 33s on my truck with LockRights. At 500rpm there isn't enough pressure/volume to have any assist and this is annoying if you aren't moving. Bump it up to 1000rpm and I can turn with my pinky. If the driver tire is dangling I can't turn for sh¡t.


So, for the project rig, I did a little research. I figured the problem would be 10x worse with 38-40" tires even though I planned to have around 800lbs less on the front axle.

Full hydro seemed to be a bit of a chore and not a lot of fun to drive on the street. Great for highway stuff since it'll go where you point it. But snaking through the curvy city streets it sucks. It is also cheaper than going crossover.

So then I looked at hydraulic assist. Costs significantly more than full hydro because you need crossover first. Has some benefits but you need a tweaked pump and steering gear.


So, for now, I'm going with plain-jane crossover. I bought a tall-style steering arm and stud kit from Sky for ~$126 (haven't gotten them yet, but that's what it shows on my credit card statement). I'll have another $80 into a draglink. $25/each for TREs since I'm sure the Sky arm uses 1 ton TREs instead of 1/2 ton TREs. By the time I get done I'll probably have $325 into crossover. About $75 more than full hydro.
 
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The gentleman asking the question

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I was hoping a flame war wouldn't start in this thread, but refering to me as a gentleman is the fastest way to get there.
/forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

So everything that I have read was along the lines that I was thinking, crossover would be the way to go. Now onto this little bit, bump steer. I've read that the way to get rid of it is to put on a Panhard bar. Probably the simplest and cheapest way around the bump steer problem, would hydro assist negate any bump steer?
 
Hydro assist will help dampen it by fluid flow resistance, but that's about it. Not sure how to quantitize it though. It's not too terribly bad on my truggy, and I sometimes bound down the dirt roads pretty fast in it (40ish).

And a panhard can put some significant side loads on the leafs. Doable, but the bind/flex may effect bushing longevity, flex, frame mount longevity (for the bar mount, much like the steering box), etc. Best thing is to get the drag link line relatively flat, but that's hard to do without hitting the driver's spring or the passenger frame on up travel.
 
I wouldn't totally count out Full Hydro. I run full hydro on the freeway no problem. Drove 6-7 hours to moab with the full hydro and 42's and it worked pretty good. I have had all the setups, Stock,crossover,crossover with assist, and full hydro. I like the Full hydro the best. Its turns easier then my wifes honda accord. And if you match your system right in can feel just as good as stock. I have a balanced cylinder so you dont get the 2 turns to the left and then 1.5 turns right to get you back to the same spot. Its also not slow one way and fast the other.(You could also use this on the hydro assist with the same results, other then the different turning ratio) As for the valve its an open center, load reactive danfoss valve. Thats the 2nd main component for a good hydro system. This valve will give you that road feel, although not as good as stock but probably as good as hydro assist. And in my case it helped roughting my steering much easier with the 404's. As long as you have a matched system and premium hoses there isnt really anything to worry about.
But what if the hose breaks?
But what if the dragling breaks?

Full hydro is not illegal. I have not seen proof otherwise for any state. /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif
 
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I wouldn't totally count out Full Hydro. I run full hydro on the freeway no problem. Drove 6-7 hours to moab with the full hydro and 42's and it worked pretty good. I have had all the setups, Stock,crossover,crossover with assist, and full hydro. I like the Full hydro the best. Its turns easier then my wifes honda accord. And if you match your system right in can feel just as good as stock. I have a balanced cylinder so you dont get the 2 turns to the left and then 1.5 turns right to get you back to the same spot. Its also not slow one way and fast the other.(You could also use this on the hydro assist with the same results, other then the different turning ratio) As for the valve its an open center, load reactive danfoss valve. Thats the 2nd main component for a good hydro system. This valve will give you that road feel, although not as good as stock but probably as good as hydro assist. And in my case it helped roughting my steering much easier with the 404's. As long as you have a matched system and premium hoses there isnt really anything to worry about.
But what if the hose breaks?
But what if the dragling breaks?

Full hydro is not illegal. I have not seen proof otherwise for any state. /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif

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Where did you get the components for your full hydro, and about how much did they run? What kind of pump are you running?
 
Food for thought....a full AGR system runs around $870 at autozone....there products just became ava at azone this last week...$328 for the box $130 for the pump....for $870 you get the whole kit....gear,ram,pump,fittings,lines,weld on brackets...etc. Plus the good ole no shipping thing is nice.

DW
 
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Where did you get the components for your full hydro, and about how much did they run? What kind of pump are you running?

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I got all my stuff from Sean Stapely(STATION on Pirate4x4.com) at Performance Offroad Steering. The Dan Foss Orbitrol valve was around $340, and the cylinder was $300. I made all the mounts, steering arms, clevis ends, and tierods. The heims are from speedway magazine.The pump is an AGR pump that come with the Rock Ram kit. A stock pump would work fine though. And if you buy a pump, Sean sales a 6.5gpm pump with 2 high pressure outs for around $160. /forums/images/graemlins/truck.gif
 
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