I don't know but I am trying to learn. What is...

[bmsmalley]

I have been on here before talking about axle choice and have learned a lot. Still haven't made a decision but at least now I am able to make an informed decision. So which everway I go will be a good choice.

Now, I have more questions and knowing I will get a good education on here, here I go.

1. What are the advantages of running 52" springs in the front?

2. What are zero rate springs?

3. What is the advantage of moving your front axle forward 1.5"

4. Does all of this spring trickery work with cross-over steering and high steer kits? (to me cross-over steering is very functional no brainer obvious upgrade. High steer makes the front look really cool.)

5. What length springs are stock in the rear of an 85 K5?

6. Does zero rate work the same for the rear?

7. Can you relocate the rear 1.5" like the front and gain an advantage?

Thanks to all that answer any and/or all of my questions. Right now my completely stock 85 K5 with 6.2 is sitting in the garage just begging for something to be done to it, and so am I.

 

[b454rat]

1. What are the advantages of running 52" springs in the front?

Cheap, 4-5" of lift, great flex.

2. What are zero rate springsn?

Zero rates are a block that bolt to the spring pack. Can't call them a block since they bolt on, but can't get them a spring either cause they don't change the spring rate.

3. What is the advantage of moving your front axle forward 1.5"

Moves the axle forward away from the inner fender and fire wall. Tires will hit here with alot of flex and low lift.

4. Does all of this spring trickery work with cross-over steering and high steer kits? (to me cross-over steering is very functional no brainer obvious upgrade. High steer makes the front look really cool.)

I guess you have to go with crossover with 52s up front. They flex so well that the stock steering won't work worth a damn.

5. What length springs are stock in the rear of an 85 K5?

52s.

6. Does zero rate work the same for the rear?

Yes.

7. Can you relocate the rear 1.5" like the front and gain an advantage?

Yes. Alot of people run the zero rate with a shackle flip to relocate the axle into the wheelwell. Flips move the axle forward 1.5" or so. Zero rate will put it back to center.

 

[Stomis]

I have been on here before talking about axle choice and have learned a lot. Still haven't made a decision but at least now I am able to make an informed decision. So which everway I go will be a good choice.

Now, I have more questions and knowing I will get a good education on here, here I go.

1. What are the advantages of running 52" springs in the front?
Better flex, better ride quality. More important are the disadvantages of it. For a DD you cannot take corners like your a racecar. You'll need atleast 14in travel shocks, long slip driveshaft, and crossover.

2. What are zero rate springs?
This is essentially a lift block that bolts to your spring pack therefor making it a leaf. Its called a zero rate because despite the added lift it does not change the spring rate.

3. What is the advantage of moving your front axle forward 1.5"
Most people move the front axle forward to get the tires out of the fenderwall on compression. Another reason is to better your approach angle.

4. Does all of this spring trickery work with cross-over steering and high steer kits? (to me cross-over steering is very functional no brainer obvious upgrade. High steer makes the front look really cool.)
The crossover is actually pretty much necessary for 52in front springs. I wouldnt recommend full high steer on a half ton axle without after market knuckles.

5. What length springs are stock in the rear of an 85 K5?
Stock rears are 52in stock fronts are 47in

6. Does zero rate work the same for the rear?
A zero rate can be added to any spring pack.

7. Can you relocate the rear 1.5" like the front and gain an advantage?
Most people move the rear axle back. Again its all about departure angle and where your tires are going when you stuff them.

Thanks to all that answer any and/or all of my questions. Right now my completely stock 85 K5 with 6.2 is sitting in the garage just begging for something to be done to it, and so am I.

Answered in quote

 

[dfl701]

the only drawback(if you can call it that) is you HAVE to run crossover since the stock steering wont work. therefore it makes this an expensive upgrade when all said and done. but its well worth it

 

[bmsmalley]

WOW !! I am getting some good direction here now. So my thoughts are leaning towards the following, am I on the right track? What am I missing or should I consider?

Front:
6" 52's
1.5" Zero Rate
Cross Over Steering (high steer later)

Rear:
2" 52's (maybe 56's since i am getting a better understanding now)
4" ORD shackle flip
1.5" Zero Rate

 

[K5dreamer]

Im a big fan of this post, im learning alot as well.

So a quick related question.

for those looking for a 4in lift, which makes more financial sense? an aftermarket 4in lift, or hitting up the junkyard, grabbing a set of 52" springs, and doing the crossover steering and possibly driveshaft mod.?

i seem to recal a 52" spring install in the tech section, i think imma go do some reading.

 

[bmsmalley]

I just read the 52" install here on CK5 and it looks like I can get 4 to 4.5" of lift by just installing 52's in the front. Is this correct? Talk about a money saver if true. Somebody please tell me I read that article right so I can go to the junk yard tomorrow.

 

[dfl701]

Im a big fan of this post, im learning alot as well.

So a quick related question.

for those looking for a 4in lift, which makes more financial sense? an aftermarket 4in lift, or hitting up the junkyard, grabbing a set of 52" springs, and doing the crossover steering and possibly driveshaft mod.?

i seem to recal a 52" spring install in the tech section, i think imma go do some reading.

it would be cheaper to do aftermarket springs since the 52s require crossover.

I just read the 52" install here on CK5 and it looks like I can get 4 to 4.5" of lift by just installing 52's in the front. Is this correct? Talk about a money saver if true. Somebody please tell me I read that article right so I can go to the junk yard tomorrow.

yea that is correct. You can change how much you get by taking leafs out but like I said above it is not a cheap thing since it requires crossover

 

[blazinzuk]

Front:
6" 52's that would give you about 10"s of lift round about
1.5" Zero Rate
Cross Over Steering (high steer later)

Rear:
2" 52's (maybe 56's since i am getting a better understanding now)
4" ORD shackle flip
1.5" Zero Rate

So you are looking for about 10"of lift then, what size of tires do you want to run, whats the rig going to be used for? You can trim just a little and fit way bigger tires especially by moving the front end forward like the 52s do

 

[Stomis]

Yes you will get anywhere from 3.5 to 5" of lift from STOCK 52in springs up front.

Try to aim for no more than 6in of lift for a functional wheeler thats not just a mud bomber.

 

[blazinzuk]

Try to aim for no more than 6in of lift for a functional wheeler thats not just a mud bomber.

Have to respectfully disagree with this, You can wheel a tall truck you just better hope it has a ton of flex, my blazer was at about 9" of lift and wheeled just fine, but it had a stupid amount of flex. tons of up travel.

I do however agree that a lower truck can work extremely well, my current ride on 42s is the same height as a blazer on 35s with a 6" lift

 

[bmsmalley]

Thanks Stomis and Blazinzuk. I am getting close to a final build plan that is based largerly on all that I have researched here on CK5. So far I have 2 plans that both include the same type suspension, basically I just need to decide what tire size I really want. Decisions, descisions.

Plan 1: 36" tires, keep the stock 10 bolts (gear them and lock them chromo the axles), 52 front and shackle lift in the rear, zero rates both ends, cross over steer and high steer

Plan 2: 39" tires, 1 ton drive line (geared and locked), 52 front and shackle lift in the rear, zero rates both ends, cross over steer and high steer

 

[dfl701]

Honestly I wouldn't waste my time gearing the 10 bolts. If you can find one ton stuff you might could get away without regearing. It would be cheaper. Except for the Dana 60. It's something to think about though. I'm sure you would go bigger later so why waste the money the first time?

 

[blazinzuk]

yep go bigger now it will save you time and money. For 39s I would probably stick to less than 8" of lift though make it real stable plus it looks super cool

 

[Stomis]

Have to respectfully disagree with this, You can wheel a tall truck you just better hope it has a ton of flex, my blazer was at about 9" of lift and wheeled just fine, but it had a stupid amount of flex. tons of up travel.

I do however agree that a lower truck can work extremely well, my current ride on 42s is the same height as a blazer on 35s with a 6" lift

I'm not saying it doesnt work or anything its just that from my experience building my truck and having driven in trucks that were 12" on 40's and 14" on 44's and such I think the lower the truck the more functional.

Having uptravel with lift like that isnt too common lol. Thats the thing about my truck its only like 4in uptravel. The rest is all down.

 

[blazinzuk]

I'm not saying it doesnt work or anything its just that from my experience building my truck and having driven in trucks that were 12" on 40's and 14" on 44's and such I think the lower the truck the more functional.

Having uptravel with lift like that isnt too common lol. Thats the thing about my truck its only like 4in uptravel. The rest is all down.

I forget sometimes that people actually use lift kits to lift our trucks LOL.

you speak the truth any truck using lift springs that are more than 6" is worthless for the most part. But if you can manage to get that lift using a different method i.e. lifted 52s different brand springs altogther etc. Higher trucks can work well but they have to be flexy.

Contrary to what my statement may have sounded like I like lower trucks too, mine is just a little too low at 122" wheel base

 

[K5dreamer]

ok, so noob question, i just want to see if i got my mind right.

4in lift kit from a company - no need for crossover steering

52" front springs - needs crossover steering.....

is that because the 52" springs flex more??? so if you were to articulate youd need the crossover steering to retain the ability to steer your rig?

so really, the springs could be done to a DD rig, youd just need to do the crossover steering before you took it wheeling. am i correct in this.

 

[Stomis]

ok, so noob question, i just want to see if i got my mind right.

4in lift kit from a company - no need for crossover steering

52" front springs - needs crossover steering.....

is that because the 52" springs flex more??? so if you were to articulate youd need the crossover steering to retain the ability to steer your rig?

so really, the springs could be done to a DD rig, youd just need to do the crossover steering before you took it wheeling. am i correct in this.

This is correct. You'll also need to trim your TRE's for the draglink so you can compress it back to center.

 

[sixb]

Since this is a q&a for newbs

I have read that on my build crossover will be difficult with the cummins and the avalanche motor mounts and cross member.

Now with the zero rate I should be able to move the axle forward enough to acomplish this?

Is that all there is to it, just move the axle forward until you get the clearance for crossover needed? Is there any negative to this.

My build is a trail k5 that will be driven leagaly on the street and used for hunting and fishing on rocky mnt logging roads.

I eventually want high steer, crossover, hydro assist and a d60 with a detroit. I actually have everything to accomplish this except the hydro stuff, steering arm that comes off the steering box I think it's from a jeep tj and a detroit.

 

[Stomis]

Since this is a q&a for newbs

I have read that on my build crossover will be difficult with the cummins and the avalanche motor mounts and cross member.

Now with the zero rate I should be able to move the axle forward enough to acomplish this?

Is that all there is to it, just move the axle forward until you get the clearance for crossover needed? Is there any negative to this.

My build is a trail k5 that will be driven leagaly on the street and used for hunting and fishing on rocky mnt logging roads.

I eventually want high steer, crossover, hydro assist and a d60 with a detroit. I actually have everything to accomplish this except the hydro stuff, steering arm that comes off the steering box I think it's from a jeep tj and a detroit.

Be aware I'm pretty sure Hydro is illegal in most states. Moving the steering box forward is more of a solution for your clearance problem I believe.