I'm going to put a tranny cooler on my suburban due to having a 700r4. I've been told that heat is the biggest killer of that tranny. I've had 2 rebuilt in the past and want to hold off as long as possible on a third. I started looking at coolers but theres a lot of choices. I dont know if its bad for you to cool it down too much or not?? I was looking at an 8 pass 20" one and I already have a fan for it. It says its for heavy towing use though(26000#gvw). I wont be towing much but will make long interstate trips. Will this one be fine for every day use or should I go smaller.
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Is there a such thing as too much tranny cooler?
- Thread starter shady
- Start date
Yes.
They need to reach an operating temp. Nobody really talks about it that way though. Usually running too cold isn't an issue. Somebody will chime in with the optimal running temp. I think I read online that its around 180.
They need to reach an operating temp. Nobody really talks about it that way though. Usually running too cold isn't an issue. Somebody will chime in with the optimal running temp. I think I read online that its around 180.
4xcrazy
3/4 ton status
I have one mounted to the front of the radiator that pretty much takes up almost half of the radiator, not quite as tall though, some spiral tube design unit. I don't know what the temps are, but I imagine it works pretty well.
I think the way you have the lines run is the biggest question really. Out here in the Phoenix, Arizona heat, I have it going through the radiator first, then through the aux cooler. BUT, you'd think, and I swear I read it somewhere that you need to maintain some heat for proper operation of everything, so in the colder climate areas it would/should be better to run through the aux cooler to take off the majority of the heat, then through the radiator cooler to keep a maintained, normal operating heat range going through it.
Otherwise the fluid stays too cold and things don't work properly or something.
I think the way you have the lines run is the biggest question really. Out here in the Phoenix, Arizona heat, I have it going through the radiator first, then through the aux cooler. BUT, you'd think, and I swear I read it somewhere that you need to maintain some heat for proper operation of everything, so in the colder climate areas it would/should be better to run through the aux cooler to take off the majority of the heat, then through the radiator cooler to keep a maintained, normal operating heat range going through it.
Otherwise the fluid stays too cold and things don't work properly or something.
The few I've seen that come with fans have a switch that turns them on at 175*. Im going to just get the standard duty one and a tranny temp gauge. There cheap enough That I can always go up in size if my needs require it I guess. thanks for the info.
yup, it's how I nuked my 700.. It needs to get up to 150 or so to burn off condensation... eliminate the rad cooler and just run an aux in a cold climate and you'll know what I mean..
BUT, if you keep the rad "cooler" in the mix, you can run as big of an aux as you want...
BUT, if you keep the rad "cooler" in the mix, you can run as big of an aux as you want...
this x2
Mine is the largest one www.Bowtieoverdrives.com sells. I wish I still had the box it came in, then you could just get it direct and prolly cheaper. Really good strong cooler IMO.
atf needs to be up to a specific temp. to cold can hurt in the long run.
and if you wana reach temp but stay cool look at this unit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13011/
and get a good trans temp gauge to keep a eye on the system.
and keep the factory rad cooler for help in warm up.
and if you wana reach temp but stay cool look at this unit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13011/
and get a good trans temp gauge to keep a eye on the system.
and keep the factory rad cooler for help in warm up.
TexasSilhouette
1/2 ton status
There are thermostats available that bypass the aux cooler until the fluid reaches operating temp. Depending on your climate that may be a good idea.
There is a limit to how much heat you can remove via the cooler lines, there is a point of diminishing returns. We add deep pans with cooling fins where clearance allows, cooling tubes where clearance is an issue.
We have had several vehicles with huge coolers and one with an added a fan that would not stay cool while trailering, a deep pan with cooling ribs on the bottom cooled them right off.
If you are going to be pushing the envelope, a temp gauge is a good idea.
There is a limit to how much heat you can remove via the cooler lines, there is a point of diminishing returns. We add deep pans with cooling fins where clearance allows, cooling tubes where clearance is an issue.
We have had several vehicles with huge coolers and one with an added a fan that would not stay cool while trailering, a deep pan with cooling ribs on the bottom cooled them right off.
If you are going to be pushing the envelope, a temp gauge is a good idea.
Last edited:
I think you will have a hard time finding a tranny cooler that's too big. And I read on TCIs site, that unless you are driving in 0 F or below(Which might happen with you as a DD in Iowa), you don't need to run it through the radiator.
With that said, my tranny cooler IS the size of my radiator. Has been on my regal for 14 years (same tranny), and has been on my truck for 8 years (I built a new tranny, old one was working fine, upon teardown, everything looked great). I don't drive the regal in the winter, I do drive the truck in the winter on occasion. Neither have the fluid going through the radiator. The fluid simply goes out of the tranny, into my old AC condensor (yes, the huge cooler in front of the radiator), and back into the tranny. I just flushed it out VERY well. I have never noticed condensation in the tranny yet, not to say it can't form. I just recently installed a temp gauge so I can vie wmy tranny temp. Haven't driven it enough to see what it warms up to, all I have done is go around the block a couple times when it was 30 degrees out. But it definitely started to warm up even in that short time (~130), and my TH400 book says it should be about 15 miles to warm up, not 2, so it's still on the way up I am sure. If you do run it through the radiator, I don't think you can fit a cooler in front of it thats too big. You have to remember NOT ALL of the fluid goes through the cooler. And it's only a 5/16" cooler line, cooling it too much, is going to be pretty hard, near practically impossible if it runs through the radiator as well.
With that said, my tranny cooler IS the size of my radiator. Has been on my regal for 14 years (same tranny), and has been on my truck for 8 years (I built a new tranny, old one was working fine, upon teardown, everything looked great). I don't drive the regal in the winter, I do drive the truck in the winter on occasion. Neither have the fluid going through the radiator. The fluid simply goes out of the tranny, into my old AC condensor (yes, the huge cooler in front of the radiator), and back into the tranny. I just flushed it out VERY well. I have never noticed condensation in the tranny yet, not to say it can't form. I just recently installed a temp gauge so I can vie wmy tranny temp. Haven't driven it enough to see what it warms up to, all I have done is go around the block a couple times when it was 30 degrees out. But it definitely started to warm up even in that short time (~130), and my TH400 book says it should be about 15 miles to warm up, not 2, so it's still on the way up I am sure. If you do run it through the radiator, I don't think you can fit a cooler in front of it thats too big. You have to remember NOT ALL of the fluid goes through the cooler. And it's only a 5/16" cooler line, cooling it too much, is going to be pretty hard, near practically impossible if it runs through the radiator as well.
shovelbill80
1/2 ton status
one of the biggest things to consider is the heat buildup due to the converter not locking up.....or building a 700R4 and mismatching the stall to the driving style.....the cable needs to be adjusted correctly.
so keep in mind that the cooler is not the only thing to worry about. they don't "run hot" because they are OD trannies, they run hot when not maintained or they are abused. it's true the early models had problems, but over the years they were improved upon till they went electronic in '94 i think (4L60E). the '88-'93 700's are the best to build for our trucks and can handle around 600 hp without problems if built correctly.....i'd run it through the radiator and have a good aux cooler to. a fan with a switch will help if you are "crawling"......fwiw
so keep in mind that the cooler is not the only thing to worry about. they don't "run hot" because they are OD trannies, they run hot when not maintained or they are abused. it's true the early models had problems, but over the years they were improved upon till they went electronic in '94 i think (4L60E). the '88-'93 700's are the best to build for our trucks and can handle around 600 hp without problems if built correctly.....i'd run it through the radiator and have a good aux cooler to. a fan with a switch will help if you are "crawling"......fwiw
British Slave
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2007
- Posts
- 2,086
- Reaction score
- 2
I'm not so sure about the below "0*" operation. Here in South Texas, it's never been that cold, but the cold we get, around 30* will ruin a transmission if the cooler lines don't run through the radiator cooler also. I know, I did it. The radiator cooler helps warm the fluid to get it to operating temp, so there isn't any worry about "over cooling" the fluid.
Directly from TCI...
The rest can be seen here...
http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/tci-transmission-converter-faqs-2095.html
How do you know your tranny was killed because it wasn't warm enough? There are a lot of variables that can kill one, and too cool is usually far from the problem. I lived in northern TX for 2.5 years, and I wouldn't think twice about running the cooler alone year round there (and did it), let alone south TX.
However, if it's a DD in Iowa, I would run it through the radiator first, and use a huge cooler after.
British Slave
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2007
- Posts
- 2,086
- Reaction score
- 2
I can only say what I have personally experienced. Why take chances? I won't ever again.
I understand that, and respect it, and I am asking, in that experience, what was the method you used to determine the reason the tranny was killed because it was too cold?
British Slave
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2007
- Posts
- 2,086
- Reaction score
- 2
Straight from B&M:
B&M Super Cooler Mounting Guidelines
When considering installing a supplemental
transmission fluid cooler B&M recommends
the following guidelines for a successful and
efficient installation:
transmission fluid cooler B&M recommends
the following guidelines for a successful and
efficient installation:
●
Route the transmission fluid through the stock
radiator cooler, then through the supplemental
B&M SuperCooler and then back to the
transmission. This will provide the most efficient
transmission fluid cooling system for your vehicle.
radiator cooler, then through the supplemental
B&M SuperCooler and then back to the
transmission. This will provide the most efficient
transmission fluid cooling system for your vehicle.
●
Mount the supplemental B&M SuperCooler in an
area where the cooler receives good air flow
circulation. The best location is in front of the
radiator. If you cannot locate an area on the
vehicle with a good airflow you should consider the
B&M Hi-Tek Cooling System #70298 or #70297.
area where the cooler receives good air flow
circulation. The best location is in front of the
radiator. If you cannot locate an area on the
vehicle with a good airflow you should consider the
B&M Hi-Tek Cooling System #70298 or #70297.
●
Mount the B&M SuperCooler with the fittings on
top or on the sides. It is not recommended to
mount the cooler with the fittings pointing down as
this may create an air pocket in the cooler resulting
in reduced cooling efficiency. When mounting the
cooler with the fittings on the right or left side, the
lower fitting must be the inlet with the top fitting
routing the fluid back to the transmission.
top or on the sides. It is not recommended to
mount the cooler with the fittings pointing down as
this may create an air pocket in the cooler resulting
in reduced cooling efficiency. When mounting the
cooler with the fittings on the right or left side, the
lower fitting must be the inlet with the top fitting
routing the fluid back to the transmission.
●
For extreme cooling issues you should consider a
cast deep oil pan for the transmission. A cast oil
pan will increase the capacity of oil by at least 2
additional quarts of oil providing additional fluid
capacity in the transmission, torque converter and
fluid cooler system allowing more cooling ability.
cast deep oil pan for the transmission. A cast oil
pan will increase the capacity of oil by at least 2
additional quarts of oil providing additional fluid
capacity in the transmission, torque converter and
fluid cooler system allowing more cooling ability.
●
Monitor the transmission fluid as the fluid leaves
the cooler and returns to the transmission.
Monitoring the returning fluid will give you an
accurate indication of how efficient your cooling
system is functioning. A good operating
temperature of an automatic transmission is 160º
to 200º F as the fluid exits the cooler. If you can
maintain fluid temperature below 175º F the fluid
should last for as much as 100,000 miles. At 195º
F the fluid life should be 50,000 miles. At 240º the
fluid life is only 5,000 miles. Higher fluid
temperature drastically reduces the life of the
fluid. Cooler temperature equals longer fluid life.
the cooler and returns to the transmission.
Monitoring the returning fluid will give you an
accurate indication of how efficient your cooling
system is functioning. A good operating
temperature of an automatic transmission is 160º
to 200º F as the fluid exits the cooler. If you can
maintain fluid temperature below 175º F the fluid
should last for as much as 100,000 miles. At 195º
F the fluid life should be 50,000 miles. At 240º the
fluid life is only 5,000 miles. Higher fluid
temperature drastically reduces the life of the
fluid. Cooler temperature equals longer fluid life.
●
If the radiator in your vehicle does not have
provision for a transmission cooler you must use
a larger fluid cooler, than you would normally
consider, for the vehicle. Typically the smallest
cooler you should consider when not using the
radiator provision would be the B&M #70266 or
#70272 Universal SuperCooler.
provision for a transmission cooler you must use
a larger fluid cooler, than you would normally
consider, for the vehicle. Typically the smallest
cooler you should consider when not using the
radiator provision would be the B&M #70266 or
#70272 Universal SuperCooler.
●
When using the Universal SuperCoolers or Hi-Tek
Cooling Systems with the 1/2NPT female fittings
B&M recommends -6 lines and fittings for
Automatic Transmission Fluid and -8 lines and
fittings for Engine Oil applications.
Cooling Systems with the 1/2NPT female fittings
B&M recommends -6 lines and fittings for
Automatic Transmission Fluid and -8 lines and
fittings for Engine Oil applications.
Mounting Recommendations
Fluid Routing
Fluid Routing
or
Radiator
B&M
SuperCooler
Transmission
in
Transmission outRadiator
B&M
SuperCooler
Transmission
in
British Slave
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2007
- Posts
- 2,086
- Reaction score
- 2
The fluid was too thichk to pump. It was around 20*. No, it wasn't changed the day before, but had been maintained according to manufacturers reccommendations.
In my job of servicing hydraulic pressure control valves on pipelines, it was common to experience problems with Dexron transmission fluid in temps between 30 and 40 degrees. It caused the actuators to act sluggish. We were advised by the manufacturer of the fluid (ARCO) to add heaters or 10% kerosine to the Dexron when temps were expected to be below 40 degrees for an extended period. No, I never added kero to my vehicles. But I did put the fluid back thru the radiator. The repair shop advised that also.
So based on this and the fact that they run the tranny cooler after the radiator, they are hoping it will help cool it down before it gets to the oil cooler. But I agree, it will help heat it up quicker in cold climates too.
However, we start cars every day in the winter here, with below zero temps, and much colder north of here, sometimes -60 in minnesota, AK, etc. Your tranny is going to pump fine in 20 deg weather, and it will warm up plenty in that temp too, even without a radiator. I believe your tranny failed for a completely different reason, but I respect the fact that you worked in hydraulics, etc for your career. So I'll just leave it at that.
I will say this, I never beat on my vehicle until they are all warmed up, I always go easy on it until the engine is warm, so I hear you on the cold temps.
I hope you have a good week.
Shady, you should have plenty of info now!
plenty of info. I've decided that I'm going to get a temp gauge first and see if I even need a cooler at all, then I'll get one. Thanks guys
British Slave
1/2 ton status
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2007
- Posts
- 2,086
- Reaction score
- 2
I'm just glad it doesn't get that cold very often here. And when it does, I'm even more glad I have reached the point I can just say screw it, I'm staying in the house today.
I'm having a great week, and I hope you do also.
I'm having a great week, and I hope you do also.
