Holy cow.
So I'm trying to get my'73 K5 street legal here in MI. I used 2 parts K5's, for which I have the titles (and VIN plates, still attached to some sheet metal around it). I rebuilt my truck with a fiberglass body from US. Body source. So, that means it did not have a VIN plate, obviously.
According to the state of michigan, I need an assembled vehicle title. In order to do that, I need to produce receipts for the major body parts (engine, frame, axles, ...etc), state police inspection, etc...no problem. I had the PoPo over this morning, he certifies my vehicle has all the required stree legal elements (lights, horn, brakes,ran the vins to ensure not stolen, checked the frame vin....etc). I take all that to the Secratary of State (DMV in most other states). So they give me a title that says '2012 Assembled STA WGN'. It's ok, I knew that's what I'd get ahead of time. I don't care about resale because I'm never gonna sell it. I just wanted to be "legal" (whatever that is).
MI does not allow moving of VIN plates, at all. Even if you replace your pickup cab with another pickup cab with a vin plate, using that VIN is not allowed (technically) and you must get an assembled vehicle title. My body did not have a VIN plate, obviously. I could rivet it on there, but they use special rosette head rivets, which while hard to find, are findable, but are apparently a federal felony to possess. Here in MI, it's a felony to possess vin plates off the vehicle (mine are still technically attached
, albeit to a very small portion of the vehicle)
Actually, titling isn't the issue. While there is a involved procedure, it is straight forward. It's the insurance. Hollllllllyyyyy cooow.... What did I do.
Nobody will insure this thing, at least in calling around alot today, I've not been able to find someone who says they'll even try. The second you mention assembled vehicle title, the conversation goes way south. In my head, all I did was replace rusty body parts. It is essentially a 1973 blazer. There's classic policies that will insure assembled/hot rods, etc, but they are limited use, and they do not cover by any means ANY type of modified 4x4 (grundy, haggerty, etc) . If it's 4x4, it better be a bone stock resto. They also don't cover it leaving any type of fed/state/local road. Ie, not covered off-road. Then there's off-road only policies from a few companies, buggie stuff, etc, but they don't cover anything that touches pavement. A regular car policy if not doable, it seems, because it has an 'assembled' title.
So I started asking some question to these insurance agents, based on things I found from the interweb and more interestingly, I called a few body shops I knew people at and asked them.
ONe body shop had a very interesting story to tell. They just had a few weeks back, a 2009 ram crew cab, was t-bone, front end, frame,bed untouched. cab was whacked on the drivers side. They were gonna replace the cab-side, but found all the floorboards were buckled, dash was bent down, etc. So they ask the insurance company if they could swap on a 2009 salvage cab for far cheaper. Insurance said go ahead, so they did so. After it was done, in accordance with the state laws, the owner (in ignorance because he was told to) went and applied for the assembled vehicle title. According to state law, if you swap the piece of the vehicle with the vin on it, ie cab, it's no longer legally titleable with either vin. (this gets really interesting on late model cars where vins, con-vins, partial vins, etc, are stamped all over the place). After he got his new title and assigned state VIN, insurance said they can't insure anymore because he built it and he'd have to find a specialty insurer.
It's the same truck!!!!!! WTF. So not only is he stuck with mabey or mabey not finding an insurance place that will insure an 'assembled' vehicle for normal use, the re-sale value of his vehicle is non-existent. Who's going to buy a 2012 "assembled vehicle" that looks like a 2009 ram truck???
So, many have told me just to rivet the vin plate I had onto the new body and call it done. Yes, easily doable, you can even find the rosette rivets if you look hard enough or I could painstakingly remove the ones I have from the 2 vin plates I have. But it calls into question why your insuring it. It's not replacable, really, bo body shop is gonna do a custom fiberglass body if it gets in a wreck. Mostly, I want liability coverage. So, if I did swap VIN plates, like so many seem to be doing, and god forbid there's some sort of wreck 10 years from now and there's a high stakes payout involved, you KNOW the insurance company is going to go over the thing with a fine toothed comb and try to argue any way possible out of paying, that's what they do, that's their business. It would be easily discoverable that GM never made a fiberglass body and I must have swaped the VIN plates, and therefor violated the law and therefor no coverage. It's a slim chance, but am I being paranoid here? On the flipside, it seems they might argue, even if I find some company to insure my "assembled" vehicle, that if some high stakes payout was pending they might argue, for example, my welds sucked and must have caused the accident. I guess in my head, that's a far harder argument to make than saying, you swapped vin plates, against the law, done deal, no coverage, an easy out for the ins. company. Isn't what your really insuring against is a high stakes liability payout? I mean even on a new vehicle worth say $40k, even if you didn't carry comp, 30k would suck to lose, yes, but it's not a financial life as you know it ending situation. If you could afford the $40k vehicle, that's most likely the case. comp insurance is cheap enough for them, so you have it. But the main part of the insurance, the big stuff, liability. The $500k payouts. That's financial ruin. That's what you need insurance for, and that's exactly what you won't have if you violate the law and swap vin plates. They will see it.
So what are people doing? Every state's gonna have different laws in this area, I'm sure. I have found the frame vin, it's only a partial though. That doesn't really help me. I see countless people everywhere who've done jeep body swaps, drive their custom trikes on the road, etc. I'm kinda stuck now, in order to get the title I have, I had to surrender the titles of the two vehicles I used to build it. I've no choice but to find an insurer now for the "vehicle" I have, apparently, a 2012 Assembled Station wagon.
ANyhow, does anyone know of a company that will do a stated/appraised value regular use policy for an on-off road vehicle? I'm startin' to draw straws here. I've found a few more places to call in the AM, but I don't have much faith. By trying to do it the 'legal' way, I may be in for big headaches here. Even if I find place that will insure me, which I'm pretty confident I will (only because, well, it seems, somebody has to insure these things, right?!), i'm also now coming to the realization, whatever insurance I can find is probably not going to be cheap, even if I skip the comp portion.
So I'm trying to get my'73 K5 street legal here in MI. I used 2 parts K5's, for which I have the titles (and VIN plates, still attached to some sheet metal around it). I rebuilt my truck with a fiberglass body from US. Body source. So, that means it did not have a VIN plate, obviously.
According to the state of michigan, I need an assembled vehicle title. In order to do that, I need to produce receipts for the major body parts (engine, frame, axles, ...etc), state police inspection, etc...no problem. I had the PoPo over this morning, he certifies my vehicle has all the required stree legal elements (lights, horn, brakes,ran the vins to ensure not stolen, checked the frame vin....etc). I take all that to the Secratary of State (DMV in most other states). So they give me a title that says '2012 Assembled STA WGN'. It's ok, I knew that's what I'd get ahead of time. I don't care about resale because I'm never gonna sell it. I just wanted to be "legal" (whatever that is).
MI does not allow moving of VIN plates, at all. Even if you replace your pickup cab with another pickup cab with a vin plate, using that VIN is not allowed (technically) and you must get an assembled vehicle title. My body did not have a VIN plate, obviously. I could rivet it on there, but they use special rosette head rivets, which while hard to find, are findable, but are apparently a federal felony to possess. Here in MI, it's a felony to possess vin plates off the vehicle (mine are still technically attached
, albeit to a very small portion of the vehicle)Actually, titling isn't the issue. While there is a involved procedure, it is straight forward. It's the insurance. Hollllllllyyyyy cooow.... What did I do.
Nobody will insure this thing, at least in calling around alot today, I've not been able to find someone who says they'll even try. The second you mention assembled vehicle title, the conversation goes way south. In my head, all I did was replace rusty body parts. It is essentially a 1973 blazer. There's classic policies that will insure assembled/hot rods, etc, but they are limited use, and they do not cover by any means ANY type of modified 4x4 (grundy, haggerty, etc) . If it's 4x4, it better be a bone stock resto. They also don't cover it leaving any type of fed/state/local road. Ie, not covered off-road. Then there's off-road only policies from a few companies, buggie stuff, etc, but they don't cover anything that touches pavement. A regular car policy if not doable, it seems, because it has an 'assembled' title.
So I started asking some question to these insurance agents, based on things I found from the interweb and more interestingly, I called a few body shops I knew people at and asked them.
ONe body shop had a very interesting story to tell. They just had a few weeks back, a 2009 ram crew cab, was t-bone, front end, frame,bed untouched. cab was whacked on the drivers side. They were gonna replace the cab-side, but found all the floorboards were buckled, dash was bent down, etc. So they ask the insurance company if they could swap on a 2009 salvage cab for far cheaper. Insurance said go ahead, so they did so. After it was done, in accordance with the state laws, the owner (in ignorance because he was told to) went and applied for the assembled vehicle title. According to state law, if you swap the piece of the vehicle with the vin on it, ie cab, it's no longer legally titleable with either vin. (this gets really interesting on late model cars where vins, con-vins, partial vins, etc, are stamped all over the place). After he got his new title and assigned state VIN, insurance said they can't insure anymore because he built it and he'd have to find a specialty insurer.
It's the same truck!!!!!! WTF. So not only is he stuck with mabey or mabey not finding an insurance place that will insure an 'assembled' vehicle for normal use, the re-sale value of his vehicle is non-existent. Who's going to buy a 2012 "assembled vehicle" that looks like a 2009 ram truck???
So, many have told me just to rivet the vin plate I had onto the new body and call it done. Yes, easily doable, you can even find the rosette rivets if you look hard enough or I could painstakingly remove the ones I have from the 2 vin plates I have. But it calls into question why your insuring it. It's not replacable, really, bo body shop is gonna do a custom fiberglass body if it gets in a wreck. Mostly, I want liability coverage. So, if I did swap VIN plates, like so many seem to be doing, and god forbid there's some sort of wreck 10 years from now and there's a high stakes payout involved, you KNOW the insurance company is going to go over the thing with a fine toothed comb and try to argue any way possible out of paying, that's what they do, that's their business. It would be easily discoverable that GM never made a fiberglass body and I must have swaped the VIN plates, and therefor violated the law and therefor no coverage. It's a slim chance, but am I being paranoid here? On the flipside, it seems they might argue, even if I find some company to insure my "assembled" vehicle, that if some high stakes payout was pending they might argue, for example, my welds sucked and must have caused the accident. I guess in my head, that's a far harder argument to make than saying, you swapped vin plates, against the law, done deal, no coverage, an easy out for the ins. company. Isn't what your really insuring against is a high stakes liability payout? I mean even on a new vehicle worth say $40k, even if you didn't carry comp, 30k would suck to lose, yes, but it's not a financial life as you know it ending situation. If you could afford the $40k vehicle, that's most likely the case. comp insurance is cheap enough for them, so you have it. But the main part of the insurance, the big stuff, liability. The $500k payouts. That's financial ruin. That's what you need insurance for, and that's exactly what you won't have if you violate the law and swap vin plates. They will see it.
So what are people doing? Every state's gonna have different laws in this area, I'm sure. I have found the frame vin, it's only a partial though. That doesn't really help me. I see countless people everywhere who've done jeep body swaps, drive their custom trikes on the road, etc. I'm kinda stuck now, in order to get the title I have, I had to surrender the titles of the two vehicles I used to build it. I've no choice but to find an insurer now for the "vehicle" I have, apparently, a 2012 Assembled Station wagon.
ANyhow, does anyone know of a company that will do a stated/appraised value regular use policy for an on-off road vehicle? I'm startin' to draw straws here. I've found a few more places to call in the AM, but I don't have much faith. By trying to do it the 'legal' way, I may be in for big headaches here. Even if I find place that will insure me, which I'm pretty confident I will (only because, well, it seems, somebody has to insure these things, right?!), i'm also now coming to the realization, whatever insurance I can find is probably not going to be cheap, even if I skip the comp portion.
Last edited:
but dont tell anyone or have a paper trail to the rivits purchased. 
(somehow, the odometer has reached 70miles????? 
) It's just about ready for a longer shakedown trip too!
