Just a few thoughts on BB'10...

[jms]

Back home, truck stashed away, shot of Vitamin T, time to reflect...

Left Wednesday for Flagstaff, AZ; met up with the AZ crew for breakfast on Thursday morning, and we rode to Moab together. Dinner at Zax with Dave (StormTrooper) and Eric from Fl was great. In fact, Zax is the one pizza joint that I really look forward to...

Friday was fun, bailed on Hey Joe to go to BFE, collected lots of good pictures . On a request from Mrk5, I tried to guide the DIY4X team from the campground out to Area BFE; well, that should have been pretty easy, but it didn't work...

Green Day in BFE on a full-body K5 on 35s pretty much means running the bypasses. Good thing I had great carburetor practice from the days leading up to the Bash, as I had all the tools handy when another q-jet needed adjusting. Worked well, but then we had to constuct the 'Alternate Fuel(supply) Vehicle... Scott (from AZ), I'm sorry the Bash took a wrong turn for you on Friday. In a weird twist, you just can't keep a good 10-bolt out of Moab.... After that, we were the stragglers in the back, and then Brent came back to run the loop part of the trail again with us. Well, at the top of the trail, I should have listened to my good friend Dave, would have saved me from a sweat-inducing tipsy teeter-totter. Anyway, spending the day with Dave, and my friends from AZ, was a lot of fun. As a bonus, I caught a series of good shots of Eric(Blazinzuk)... Good to meet Eric and Zimm...

The ORD BBQ was awesome (as always, I should add). Didn't win anything in the Raffle (I wanted the lights...), but played photographer. I apologize (sort of...) for pestering people to 'pose' next to the Sponsor's Poster with their winnings, but it's important that the people and the companies who support the Bash get recognition... My thanks to Scott (MrK5) and Nicole for all their hard work in organizing the Bash, it is really an awesome event. Furthermore, it is always great to reconnect with good friends, meet new people, and connect screen names to faces.

Sunday was another fun day. Led TipToe Behind the Rocks, according to my own GPS track from late April (I double-checked just to make sure - we were on the proper trail, as it is listed on the Latitude 40° map MoabEast). Well, that was interesting. I have a good visual memory of all the little climbs, ledges, and obstacles, but apparently not of all the turns on the gazillion roads out there. Some times my GPS pointer seemed to be off, sometimes I missed the turn - in any case, I made everyone back up like 7 times... I'm sure they were losing confidence in my abilities in the back.
We met up with the group running Behind the Rocks at NoseDive/UpChuck. Talked a little bit about Moab and the history of the trails while we were waiting, and then got to watch a few great driving exhibitions. Dirk, it was cool to see you crawl up NoseDive; the Wyoming guys in their S10-thingies drove down, and Dave scared everyone trying to drive down UpChuck . A quick glance at my photos shows there are a bunch of nice shots in the collection...
Kept motoring onwards to the edge of Hunter Canyon, and it appeared that the trail hadn't seen much use since we drove it in April. A few missed (but corrected...) turns later we were on the main BtR trail again, where we heard the story of the "Death of ye olde 12-bolt" on the radio. Jason got out safe... and we moseyed on to Hummer Hill, with a few takers, and Roller Coaster - thanks to Amber for clicking my camera a few times while I was driving. Got everybody down, and then we crossed over to the main road. That long stretch is interrupted by a hillclimb where the M1009 had a little trouble, but made it in the end. Out to the road, on to the sand dunes, collecting a (full...) fuel can on the road in the process that fell off the Blazer from Texas. Play at the dunes resulted in a few more shots, some with airtime. The latter resulted in a broken vehicle, and we used it as the guide to line everyone up for a group shot. Got to watch from afar Dave on full throttle chasing Dirk on the way out . Aired up, said my goodbyes, cleaned up, played message boy between different groups at Pasta Jay's and Zax , and had dinner at Zax with Dave and Eric. Staying at the Bowen means walking distance to Zax... All in all, a great day out on the trail! I didn't like to air up to highway pressure, not at all...


You might have noticed I've left out Saturday. In my 16 trips to Moab, this was the first time I turned around on a trail and went back out, despite being tail gunner. In my opinion, being at the northbound turnoff to Golden Spike at 2pm is asking for trouble. I like Golden Spike - in fact, it's my favorite trail in Moab. I know it well enough that I see no reason to be on it at night.
I think it's time to change up a few things, and enforce a few others ... such as e.g a precise starting time. My own trail time is so limited that I have no need to be out on a trail with people who don't have the courtesy to show up on time and be fully prepared for a 9am sharp departure. I also don't want to be out on the trail with trucks that are clearly not well maintained, or not properly prepared for this type of trail. In my opinion, there were trucks that had no business being on that trail, on that day, in their particular condition. Unexpected breakage can happen to the best truck - that's not what I'm referring to in this case. This is my personal opinion, based on my personal experience - it has nothing to do with the event or the organizers. You may think it's harsh, patronizing, arrogant, or all of that - fine by me. You may want a somebody else as leader or tailgunner - that's fine with me as well. Feel free to complain w/ the management. By the way, I had a good time crawling up and down Poison Spider...

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

You might have noticed I've left out Saturday. In my 16 trips to Moab, this was the first time I turned around on a trail and went back out, despite being tail gunner. In my opinion, being at the northbound turnoff to Golden Spike at 2pm is asking for trouble. I like Golden Spike - in fact, it's my favorite trail in Moab. I know it well enough that I see no reason to be on it at night.
I think it's time to change up a few things, and enforce a few others ... such as e.g a precise starting time. My own tail time is so limited that I have no need to be out on a trail with people who don't have the courtesy to show up on time and be fully prepared for a 9am sharp departure. I also don't want to be out on the trail with trucks that are clearly not well maintained, or not properly prepared for this type of trail.

Seems like people always bring a friend or something that have a rig that will "be fine". Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Being a trail leader, having to turn someone back is tough and makes you look like a dick.

IMO, the trifecta is a bad idea all around. Simply, it's too long. I talked with Stephen about it and I like the idea of doing just Poison Spider or just Golden Spike, maybe running up to the crack.

Funny because I took over Pritchett this year and we were done by 3:30


In all seriousness, some trails take forever because of random breakage and trucks that shouldn't really be on them. Sometimes you get unlucky. IMO I feel like the trifecta will always take forever with a bigger group.

 

[TDAWG1]

Well I for one Love having you around and U make a Nice Tail Gunner. SO C-ya next time yes????...

 

[K85 Octane]

sounds all in all good
can't wait for next year
hopefully I'm up to par by then

 

[TDAWG1]

Anyone ever thought of Smaller Groups maybe More Trails I know if there are 10 rigs or less there is no need to pay the insurance and crap. Then we are just guys who happen to have the same Type of Rigs and met up lol. But even if we ran the Trifecta say all the days as an option but in smaller groups with allowance for those who do Bring there Friends and there Rigs but did or didnt register; however, Tech inspection the morning of should determine the finall say then no one is a Dick. But no one wants to be the Guy causing everyone to stay late and no one wants to be the guy that Let everyone on the trail cause they didnt want to feel bad about saying no and then something bad or stupid happen cause they werent the Right Vehicle for the day. Of course many of you know some of the trails can be done by lesser of Rigs but how many need to be there that day. That is all. I Love BB and I LOVE What we do but some things need to be more efficiant. Anywho I hope everyone had a good time and those who were ill prepared are now prepared and working on what they need for next year I know I am.... C-ya guys

 

[jms]

Seems like people always bring a friend or something that have a rig that will "be fine". Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Being a trail leader, having to turn someone back is tough and makes you look like a dick.

IMO, the trifecta is a bad idea all around. Simply, it's too long. I talked with Stephen about it and I like the idea of doing just Poison Spider or just Golden Spike, maybe running up to the crack.

Funny because I took over Pritchett this year and we were done by 3:30
In all seriousness, some trails take forever because of random breakage and trucks that shouldn't really be on them. Sometimes you get unlucky. IMO I feel like the trifecta will always take forever with a bigger group.

Chris, I hear you. Yet, in my other Moab outings, I've always run Golden Spike, and we've always come out in daylight - with a group size of 16 trucks...

Well I for one Love having you around and U make a Nice Tail Gunner. SO C-ya next time yes????...

Yes. I certainly hope so. But if the Bash sees it otherwise, that'll be ok with me as well.

Anyone ever thought of Smaller Groups maybe More Trails I know if there are 10 rigs or less there is no need to pay the insurance and crap. Then we are just guys who happen to have the same Type of Rigs and met up lol. But even if we ran the Trifecta say all the days as an option but in smaller groups with allowance for those who do Bring there Friends and there Rigs but did or didnt register; however, Tech inspection the morning of should determine the finall say then no one is a Dick. But no one wants to be the Guy causing everyone to stay late and no one wants to be the guy that Let everyone on the trail cause they didnt want to feel bad about saying no and then something bad or stupid happen cause they werent the Right Vehicle for the day. Of course many of you know some of the trails can be done by lesser of Rigs but how many need to be there that day. That is all. I Love BB and I LOVE What we do but some things need to be more efficiant. Anywho I hope everyone had a good time and those who were ill prepared are now prepared and working on what they need for next year I know I am.... C-ya guys

Yes, the idea of smaller groups on different days was discussed (afterwards... ). I think we don't have a good handle how to do a tech inspection...

 

[jms]

sounds all in all good
...

Yes, quite so. I've had a great time at Blazer Bash. In fact, I've always had a great time at every Blazer Bash, ever since the first one back in '02.

The decision on Saturday was a difficult one - but the right one from my perspective.

 

[miniwally]

Funny because I took over Pritchett this year and we were done by 3:30

I have more to add but need to go to work now.

Be back later

 

[mrk5]

Yes, quite so. I've had a great time at Blazer Bash. In fact, I've always had a great time at Blazer Bash, ever since the first one.

The decision on Saturday was a difficult one - but the right one from my perspective.

Nicole and I both agree what you did Saturday was EXACTLY the right thing to do. You reached a point where you didn't feel comfortable continuing. You didn't just turn around with a "C-ya later alligator" and head for town. We like that you offered to take anyone interested around the Poison Spider loop and then back to town. No one took you up on it, but they all had the opportunity. Dave was comfortable continuing on which was okay for him to do. I think everyone did the right thing.

On a side note I think it was funny that Dave told the guys with him it was alright to keep going but he didn't want to hear any bitchin' about how late they were going to be because it was going to be LATE.

Michael, I know you feel that your opinions are often times not appreciated but I've never received a complaint about you nor have I even overheard any grumbling. Matter of fact, I've received positive feedback and I know for a fact there are several people that look forward to running trails with you. I like that you offer the viewpoints that you do and I think it provides a much needed balance to many who may be over eager - or in my case perhaps a bit naive at times.

I greatly appreciate the help you give the event each year and your contributions would be greatly missed, but I understand if you need to take a year off or something like that. I do want to mention I was just reading your trip reports from BB'02 & BB'04 and remembering how those were the very things that inspired me to attend my first Blazer Bash which led to me eventually taking on the organizational duties. Not that I'm trying to imply it's your fault or anything...

 

[oatsk5]

I agree with what jms said. But there are people that had issues with there rigs that when questioned about it shrugged off not making sure it wasn't a more involved issue. We turned my dads jeep around after the t-case decided 4low was not an option and followed michael out. We still had a good time. I feel the same as michael about the inspections in how who ever does these will be the bad guy from time to time but it shouldn't matter if safety is the most important thing and that should be pushed a lot more. Thats just my .02
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1.03.01

 

[mrk5]

As far as tech inspections go, I just don't know how it could be done. The 2 big obstacles would be the time required and a person(s) to do them. If anyone has ideas on how this can be done, I'd appreciate hearing some feedback.

Another thing needs to be stated here and made more clear throughout the Blazer Bash "structure" in regards to this topic. The management philosophy I use with my business is the same one I have for the Blazer Bash event. I have people around me that are professionals and know what needs to be done and how to do it. I don't believe in directly intervening and telling them how everything needs to be done.

In regards to Blazer Bash, I consider the trail leader to be the supervisor and final authority on their respective trail runs. That means if a trail leader believes in leaving promptly at the trail start time regardless of who is there then so be it that's their prerogative and I will back their decision. Likewise, if there is a truck the trail leader feels isn't properly equipped for the trail they can tell that person they need to do an easier trail or repair whatever needs to be fixed before hitting the trail.

I think the problem is that I have had this idea in my head, but haven't really properly expressed it or put the pieces in place to make it feasible. I'm confident we can work out the details to make this a more realistic goal that can get us where we want to be in leiu of doing tech inspections in the meantime. I'm not trying to completely eliminate the idea of the tech insp, but until we have a good plan on how to do them we need to have contingency plans in effect.

It's a fine line to walk deciding what vehicle should be running which trail. Especially when we really don't know what the driver's capabilities are and you can't really see a lot of the equipment options that are critical for a successful day on the trail. I know there are some trucks that come to Blazer Bash looking like they were rolled down a cliff yet they are some of the strongest rigs on the trail. At this point I think the most viable option is for the trail leaders to make the call at the meeting spot because they can look the truck over and have a direct discussion with the drivers. I also have the vehicle specs entered with registration I should probably forward on to the trail leaders before the event so potential problems can be flagged to address at the trail meeting.

I also think some of it is a "work in progress". It seems like each year we are getting a better handle on what kind of rigs can do what trails. In other words what the required equipment might be for tire size, lockers, etc. The other issue we battle seems to be the constantly evolving terrain do to environmental elements such as rain. I know the trails south of town were changed a lot after the heavy rains they had in August. What I'm trying to say is that no plan is going to be perfect but I agree we should be constantly working to address the issues that come up each year.

I do want to say I don't want Blazer Bash to turn into a "snobbish" event. I envision Blazer Bash partly being a mentoring process. I want it to be an event where we welcome the beginners and take the opportunity to pass down wisdom to the new trail runners. I think it is a shame when "older" generation only complains about the "youth" and don't take the time to show them what should be done, I've witnessed this in both the 4x4 and hot rod communities. This can even be applied to the principles of vehicle condition for the trail runs. Someone new enough to wheelin' may not realize the potential hazards of running the trail with a given vehicle condition. For example the potential harm of something as simple as an exhaust leak. I had a friend almost catch his truck on fire because an exhaust leak almost caught a wiring harness on fire, luckily it started melting and smoking first to alert him to the problem. I want the trail leaders and other "veterans" to stop and talk to that person and let him know what the potential concerns are and then hopefully even give them a hand fixing it.

On the flip side that's not to say I want a bunch of people bringing broke trucks to the event hoping to get some last minute help fixing it at the trail head. It's not polite or considerate to the other people on the trail with you if you are going to bring a vehicle that deep down you know isn't ready for the trail in question.

The mentoring process is also important when it comes to land use issues. It's important we pass down the environmental concerns. And not only just say "don't do this or that", but also explain why. Heck just Sunday morning at the trail meeting held by Michael I learned a couple of new things that I'd never heard before. Like how peeing on a tree would encourage wildlife to chew on that tree and potentially damage the bark enough to kill the tree. Also I didn't know about the age and dormancy periods of some of those trees in the area. That is the kind of stuff I'm hoping Blazer Bash can become a vehicle for passing on to the "new" generation of wheelers.

Like previous years, we have another year of experience with new unforeseen problems that we can work to address and hopefully eliminate, or at least reduce, from next year's event.

 

[mrk5]

Anyone ever thought of Smaller Groups maybe More Trails I know if there are 10 rigs or less there is no need to pay the insurance and crap. Then we are just guys who happen to have the same Type of Rigs and met up lol.

This is the kind of thing I want to avoid. I know what you are saying has some logic but realistically it is dishonest because we really are all gathering together with the purpose of running the trails at the same time. While the impact on each individual trail may be less that 25 people, we are still bringing in 120+ people on a given day that likely would not have been in the Moab area otherwise. And just a point of clarification, it's the number of people they are really concerned with not the number vehicles. Our permit fee is based on a per person per day fee regardless of the number of vehicles.

There are other reasons to register as an official event besides just following the rules. By submitting our attendance numbers to the BLM it gives them a more accurate picture of the usage of the trails in the Moab area. If no one ever registers with the BLM for their events, then organizations like SUWA can say things like this:

Why, for example, when only 7% of visitors to BLM lands in the Moab area responding to a survey said that their main activity was ORV use, are 81% of the lands overseen by the Moab BLM Office open to them?

and get away with it when the reality may be way more than 7% of the visitors are of the ORV variety. Without the data to disprove the referenced survey, how can anyone argue against it.

I feel the more cooperative we are with the BLM the more cooperative they will be with us. And so far they have been very helpful and cooperative with the permitting process.

I appreciate your perspective and I understand where you're coming from, but I like that we can come into Moab and be proud of our event and not hide hoping no one figures out we are all there together.

 

[HeftyFabworks]

We ran into a couple of jeeps up there (argentina 4x4 chick) When the Sub was getting the attempted repair. I ran into the black Jeep Sunday morning. He said that 2 of them both got physically injured and it got dark quick. They ended up calling search and rescue to come get them out Sat night. It cost them $750 for the S&R Bill. I say JMS made the right decision. Granted without any major failures I can see even a large group running Trifecta and getting out with the sun still up but we all know that doesn't happen. Even the best rigs break. Tech inspection or not. Personally I carry enough fluids and spare axles, tire, hoses, hubs, and u joints to pretty much fix just about anything that would happen but it is hard to be prepared enough to fix any one else's truck. I was surprised at the lack of basic equipment like spare tires and jacks. Now granted I don't typically carry a spare oil filter (that was just weird) but that just goes to show that anything can happen.

Scott I appreciate what you did to put together the event. I have to say that it was by far one of the better run and organized event I've been too. I appreciate everyone being so kind to us Bronco Guys. We will definitely be back next year and will be donating another large Item for the raffle again.

 

[jms]

Scott, thanks for the support.

It may have come across in the terse way I've stated my point above that I may not want to participate in a future Blazer Bash. That's not the issue. I just wanted to make it very clear that if anyone disagrees with me, I won't be standing in their way, and while I truly appreciate the support, I'm not looking for validation. And I'll be happy to step aside if that's what it takes to keep the Bash going.

As for Blazer Bash stories or features, I've received a complaint that we haven't written anything new for a while...

I also want to emphasize again that the balance between fun and aggravation at BB'10 was heavily tilted towards the fun side

One issue with a tech inspection is actually judgement of the driver: I think one of the biggest problems is that people that are new to Moab don't realize that the nature of the Moab trails place different demands on a truck that the typical offroad park or OHV area. The trails all have a 'marathon' aspect to them: trails are long, the town is far away, help or parts are not easily - and particularly not quickly - available, and often the trail itself is the only way in or out. That means that little things can lead to much larger issues. So what if the obstacles are not extreme, but the question is whether a truck can withstand the relentless onslaught all day long. This can be difficult to judge for someone new to the area, and I can see where they may think a truck is ok, because "...it has done much harder things...". As for an inspection itself, it should be done by committee, so that not a single person can be blamed. It should also be done beforehand, not on the day of the trail run. Maybe the way to do it would be along the way of "...if you're signed up for certain trails Saturday and Sunday, have your vehicle be ready to be looked at at the BBQ..."

 

[kgblazerfive]

Im going to put my two cent's in here

oil filter, never thought in a million years that I would need a spare, will have one now even though I will more then likely never need it agian.

I think the quality if the truck depends on the people that they are running with. Last year Pritchet run some of us had no business running that run but the people that we ran it with knew, well some did, before, what those trucks could or could not do. Hindsight maybe some of the trucks should not have done the trail but it was a experience in the end, something that I will never forget. Just like this year never going to forget it.

I think that as long as the group and the owner of the POS knows what they are all getting into then it should not be a problem.

If its a safety issue then they should not be allowed on the trail.

 

[bp71k5]

As someone who made it through trifecta, I would probably also agree that it's too long. I really enjoy having lunch out on the trail an being able to get out once and a while to take in the scenery and have time to "water the plants" when needed. I didn't get to do quite as much of that stuff as I liked simply because there wasn't any time. Even if there was no damaged trucks, it would have been a longer day than I'd prefer. I'd much more like to do just one or two of those trails in a day and enjoy them more.

Regarding tech inspections: I don't know how you'd check for thing other than tire size requirements or
Lockers. It would be pretty tough to weed out other stuff that's not up to par without actually driving each truck over some obstacles.

Maybe a short tech inspection "run" would help find problems that aren't visible by just looking at them?

Another factor to consider is driver experience. Myself and my k5 were probably the least experienced, but having James Watson sitting next to me with tips on how to take on those obstacles made a huge difference in getting through the trail successfully.

 

[Chaddy]

I will never run the trifecta again....I have done it several times, and Im over it. TOO LONG. I will run poison, mabey spike then turn around. The rest of the trail isnt worth it IMO. The only way I would even think about running it again, is if there was only a crew between 3 and 6 rigs. It just seem there are too many problems every year with the whole trifecta run.

 

[kgblazerfive]

I would agree Chad too long of a run, that being said I am going to run it backwards to see Jason's plaque that I missed cuz it was like 2300 and to late to stop

 

[HeftyFabworks]

Scott, thanks for the support.

As for Blazer Bash stories or features, I've received a complaint that we haven't written anything new for a while...

Scott and I have been working on this and it should be taken care of this year. I've been in contact with one of the writers for a couple of the off road mags and Scott and I have been putting things together for him. The story has already been sold to a major publisher.

 

[mrk5]

The Trifecta is a good example of my naivete. I'm glad I ran it this year so I have a better understanding of what's involved. Either way I wasn't planning to offer it for next year - I have other plans for the 10th annual event. In the future we'll do it like it's been done in the past - at the very first Blazer Bash for example - run in Gold Bar all the way to the Crack and back out Gold Bar. I realize after having done the run all of the Spike obstacles are between the Crack and Gold Bar; I had thought they were all on the Poison Spider side of the Crack. So in the future we'll run Poison Spider by itself - which seems like it would be a really cool trail. Run Gold Bar and offer the Spike option if the day is going good and all the trucks seem up to task. I like the idea of running Gold Bar for the reason Keith mentioned, stopping to pay respects to Jason Payne.

I was thinking about the tech inspection by committee - which is probably a good idea in all seriousness. But I'm carrying it further and thinking everyone on the run can choose to vote someone off the trial.... Regardless we'll continue to discuss ideas for a tech inspection even if it's limited to certain trail runs. I just need to have support - and volunteers - to get it done. I can't do it by myself and unless we get some volunteers to step up and help out, it won't happen.