K&N filter question?

[dirtwarrior17]

it was the stock filter.

Air temp is a factor i know that but if you look at a cold air kit it runs right through where they where getting it away from in the first place... yeah the intake spot is getting colder air but its probably only a couple degrees difference by the time it gets to the motor.

 

[BAJA_BLAZER]

BadDog, I’ll have to agree with you on almost all points, but having raced thousands of offroad miles with a K&N filter, I have some added experience that might shed some new light. First off, there is no doubt in my mind that K&N’s filtration is inadequate. After racing using a K&N filter, there are always noticeable amounts of silt in the carburetor and high levels of silica in the oil (from Blackstone Labs oil analysis reports) showing poor filtration. We recently raced the Prim 300 where it rained hard for much of the race. We had a $5,800.00 rebuild after that because of the amount of dirt that was “washed” through the K&N filter. Think about it, that’s how you clean them. So, as I said, I agree with you on most points, I just wouldn’t use them in a wet environment either. Buy the way; I switched to a canister style filter with paper element mounted in the cab. No filtration problems at all in last November’s Baja 1000!

 

[BadDog]

Good point, thanks for the info. Of course you're right, the only real answer to water is a snorkel or in-cab breather.

 

[dyeager535]

I don't have the info right here in front of me, but this is very easy to measure with some engines that monitor intake air temp.

It's a huge difference, something on the order of 50* on the test that a guy I know ran, of which I have his findings at home, not here. Of course, underhood vs. ambient temps (can be affected by engine size, cooling efficiency of the engine bay, exhaust, etc) will vary vehicle to vehicle, but when you can look at the intake air temp before/after, you can get a picture of what the difference really is.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

where was the reading takin at.... i beleive that for the intake spot but when it gets to the carb i find it really hard to believe there is a 50* difference

 

[dirtwarrior17]

BadDog, I’ll have to agree with you on almost all points, but having raced thousands of offroad miles with a K&N filter, I have some added experience that might shed some new light. First off, there is no doubt in my mind that K&N’s filtration is inadequate. After racing using a K&N filter, there are always noticeable amounts of silt in the carburetor and high levels of silica in the oil (from Blackstone Labs oil analysis reports) showing poor filtration. We recently raced the Prim 300 where it rained hard for much of the race. We had a $5,800.00 rebuild after that because of the amount of dirt that was “washed” through the K&N filter. Think about it, that’s how you clean them. So, as I said, I agree with you on most points, I just wouldn’t use them in a wet environment either. Buy the way; I switched to a canister style filter with paper element mounted in the cab. No filtration problems at all in last November’s Baja 1000!
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I have a feeling a paper element would have worse buildup if you ran it in the same place as the k and n. It makes sense to beleive that if you put a filter in the cab its not going to have to work as hard as it would if it was in the spot the k and n was.
most people won't ever be sucking that much dusty air in one period of time and will clean it when it gets as dirty as it got half way through one of your desert races. those are extremly dusty conditions with a very very healthy motor sucking alot more than a street motor.

just my 4 cents.

Howd you guys do in the race?

 

[dyeager535]

The temp reading is taken in the plenum, after it goes through the entire ductwork from the front of the core support and has time to "soak up" whatever heat the aluminum is giving off as well.

This is one of those things I've been meaning to test with *my* truck (since I'm running headers) and have it ducted from the core support, very easy to unbolt the air cleaner and at least have it suck underhood air. Won't be as close to the engine as it is with TBI or carb, but it will still give an indication of what the temps are.

 

[BAJA_BLAZER]

I have a feeling a paper element would have worse buildup if you ran it in the same place as the k and n. It makes sense to beleive that if you put a filter in the cab its not going to have to work as hard as it would if it was in the spot the k and n was.
most people won't ever be sucking that much dusty air in one period of time and will clean it when it gets as dirty as it got half way through one of your desert races. those are extremly dusty conditions with a very very healthy motor sucking alot more than a street motor.

just my 4 cents.

Howd you guys do in the race?

4th in Class 8 after leading early and having an alternator bolt break among other minor problems.



You are correct, they are extreme conditions. When running the K&N we use a foam outer wrap and a silk wrap on top to that. With 410 CI’s and 640 HP the thing is a giant vacuum cleaner that will plug up a couple of K&N’s in a race. The Unique Metal Products Canister Filter spins the air away from the filter and purges much of the dirt. It’s in the cab, but there are no windows so it only protects the filter from direct silt baths.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Each 10 degree drop in temp means 1% better horsepower. Also, there have been many tests showing that K&N filters do flow significantly better than stock filters, but they do not filter as well. Baja_Blazer has some extreme real world evidence of this. For the average person this is probably a pretty insignificant amount of dirt that is let through. On the other hand, however, the added airflow is usually unnecessary and won't gain much on a stock vehicle. Of course I ran one stock and thought I could feel a difference and my buddy (who didn't know I put in a K&N that day) said the truck sounded much different. I still run one, so...some people are willing to make a sacrifice and to each his own...