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K&N XStream Air Flow Tops

dirtwarrior17 said:
I just want to know where all this anti k and n crap comes from.... did you guys actually do a micron test then strap it to a dyno or is this what acdelco tells you?
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I am so glad you cant post anywhere else, you bring nothing to this place but un-educated opinions.
You really should sit back and listen more, you might actually learn somthing instead of talking like you know somthing, and helping someone who knows less than you , but actually want's to learn, make a bad decision based on your un-educated opinion's.
 
I still use the stock air tube and what i did was where it connects behind the grill I cut the front part off, to me it looked like it blocked air flow the way it was.
 
k5bl said:
I still use the stock air tube and what i did was where it connects behind the grill I cut the front part off, to me it looked like it blocked air flow the way it was.
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I did the same thing, I don't understand why that little flap was there in the first place.

Russ,

Well, well said. :)
 
:mad:

I just want to know where all this anti k and n crap comes from.... did you guys actually do a micron test then strap it to a dyno or is this what acdelco tells you?
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that is an opinion???? wow.... i suggest you read more posts before you tell me what to do. yet another problem caused by the first couple weeks... By rjfs logic ac delco probably went and talked to a bunch of people and got them to test a k and n and a couple others along with an ac delco filter for some $$$.

I am so glad you cant post anywhere else, you bring nothing to this place but un-educated opinions.
You really should sit back and listen more, you might actually learn somthing instead of talking like you know somthing, and helping someone who knows less than you , but actually want's to learn, make a bad decision based on your un-educated opinion's.
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I suggest you do the same as you probably sat down read one page and decided you were gonna set me straight.... :grin:


if you do some research on my recent posts youll see your talking about something you didn't read up on.

I'm sure there are many people who feel the same way about these filters but don't want to end up in pissing match like this...
 
I have a K&N. I'm not ashamed to say it because I paid $20 for it from one of my customers when I was working the parts store. It was cheap because I sold him a new one, the 4" filter wouldn't fit under the hood of his Camaro and he wanted a 4" one.

I bought a pre-filter for it and decided to run it. I'm pleased as punch with it, it does just fine and for the dollars invested, if I have to throw it away, it's already outlasted my previous paper filters by 2x or better so I don't care. The pre-filter really helps keep the big chunks off it, I like the idea of a prefilter, even on a paper filter.

That said.....

I would never have one on a road driven vehicle. They don't filter worth a darn, especially when they're clean. My DD runs a paper filter and always will.

Myths dispelled:

"Nobody cleans their K&N"

Well it filters WAY better when it's dirty as hell than when it's clean anyway, so it's probably in your best interest NOT to clean it.

"I use an amsoil filter"

They're foam as you probably know, and foam doesn't flow for crap. A paper filter is far superior.

One think that irked the crap out of me is Courtney from Overhaulin was in FHM recently talking about her own car, and she said it's equipped with, "A K&N air filter box that adds serious horsepower."

I've lost nearly all respect for her, I'd thought she actually knew something about cars seeing as her dad is a race car driver. Guess she's just another bimbo. She wasn't looking too hot in the magazine either. :confused:
 
As I've mentioned repeatedly on this post and the previous post on the subject. The filtration quality tests I'm referring to were run by independent parties who actually bought the filters to use in the test and used their time with no compensation to try to find the facts amid all the propaganda. These are individuals who called in a "favor" at a noted testing lab to get the sub micron testing done on VERY accurate calibrated equipment without a huge bill. There have also been numerous performance tests done by the various magazines (hotrod, 4x4, and otherwise) and they are a matter of public record if you want to look it up. I own at least 2 magazines with those reviews somewhere around here, and I've read others. Go to the library and see for your self. If you find something to support your pro-K&N views, by all means, come back and tell us. I for one would love to see what they found, but from other tests I've seen, I doubt you'll find anything. And knowing the advertising money they get from K&N, it's amazing how often the best they could do was dance around and say the "felt" more power even though time slips and dyno charts didn't show it. A few even flat out told it like it was.

So, where is your data supporting the value of K&N? Have you noticed that there are very few who are agreeing with you? And that those who do not, have more compelling data to back them up? Could this possibly be a pattern? And may I point out that it might do you well to try to learn from others who have been there. Surely you can see that you might have a little to gain beyond what you've accumulated in 17 years. I'm nearly 40 and learn new stuff every day, often invalidating what I believed the day before. And example is my UNI filter for my Duramax. Opinions are fine, and your welcome to yours, and your welcome to express it any time you please. But, please don't try to argue and defend them as if they were fact with no supporting evidence or wild accusations of tampering or foul play by AC Delco or others. When I point out the K&N advertising money, it's not anything covert or underhanded that I'm implying, but simply an obvious conflict of interest which has bearing on the relevance of the "spin" if not the actual results.

In any case, as long as the arguing does not get out of hand, I'm done. I've said this as many ways as I can and am yet again, fully fed up with it...
 
done 5 searches and got at least 350 pages everytime.... not gonna even attempt it anymore. I was not suggesting foul play from ac delco. I said by rjfs logic, ac delco payed them off because he said k and n buys the motors for the racing teams that run a 6 inch sticker on the side of their 300,000 dollar trucks.

I haven't seen any convincing evidence either way except for the fact that people in the most extreme conditions run these filters over and over again.

in one post you say that is because they are "very deep breathing engines and are willing to sacrifice extra flow for less filtration" but you also said that other filters they tested made more power on the dyno and filtered better than a k and n.... that is the hole in this argument IMHO. If there are better filters out there that make more power and save the motor why does everybody still run k and ns at every single desert race? It wouldn't be worth it at all for k and n to spend over a million dollars for all the teams motors for all the classes(theres a ****load of em) that run the k and n and k and n prefilter. those races hardly get any exposure and your lucky to see anything on that type of racing beside the baja 1000 and a show called offroad a to z on oln.

I would like to see a test with the prefilter... that is how they run em. . the foam prefilter is fairly thin and if the k and n flows more by itself but filters less then the prefilter should "even it out"... yes the flow is somewhat restricted but it is not a standalone filter, i bet the k and n and foam pre filter together would flow about the same as the others and filter better. If paper flows better than foam why is there foam in dirtbikes from the factory? i spent day after day in dusty conditions to the point where i couldn't see 20 yards ahead of me and as long as i cleaned the foam filter there wasn't any trace of dirt what so ever in the carb. I am not telling you how it is.... these are questions that have not been answered and until they are, i'm not convinced.

i don't want to hear how i shouldn't be presenting this as fact... i am not. i genuinly want to hear your answers... i want to be sure before i turn the k and n in for something else.

But, please don't try to argue and defend them as if they were fact with no supporting evidence or wild accusations of tampering or foul play by AC Delco or others
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I said by his logic ac delco would have paid them off to run those tests. I can't beleive your telling me not to suggest foul play when it was rjf that said they have secret meetings with race teams and buy their motors to get them to run k and ns.
 
BadDog said:
I've said this as many ways as I can and am yet again, fully fed up with it...
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Thats pretty much how I feel. You can't get anywhere with this kid. He refuses to except anything as factual and correct information unless it's what he thinks. I'm tired of seeing him take and twist our info around. I give up.
 
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123471&highlight=test+diesel

I think that was the post, but the article link no longer works for me.

Look at it like this. Your carb will flow 750CFM. The stock "tall" air filter flows 750CFM. (I made that number up BTW) If the K&N flows 5000CFM, what good is it doing? That's right, none. Regardless of filtering capability, etc., if the engine can't use the flow, it's pointless. Not only that, it's a proven fact that cooler air makes more power...introducing underhood heat, given that filter CFM is the same for both types, will only cost power.

On top of that, Q-jets rely on airflow in a certain pattern to get the "best" flow over the secondary air valve to keep it open. Introducing open elements, etc., COULD result in loss of performance as velocity/direction of the air has been influenced. That's out of Doug Roe's Q-jet book IIRC, it's not something I made up.

I have a VERY hard time believing that *most* motors on here need any more airflow than the "tall" stock paper element filter can provide. The fact is, the amount of air the engine can use is equal to its greatest restriction. A 600CFM Edelbrock limits you to 600CFM, no matter how effective the intake tract is before or after it.
 
Arghhhh! Somebody stop me! Please!!!!! :haha:

Only reason I'm replying again is to say, "Sorry." I guess I misunderstood the comment about AC Delco paying for reports.

But since I'm here. Your third paragraph contains some incorrect statements. I never said other filters produce more power, I said there were *no significant differences*. And on the other threads, guys who race or crew in desert races had some not so nice things to say about K&N. My impression is that desert racers run the K&N *type* (they use UNI and other similar filters along with paper "Donaldson" drum filters and such too) because they do not plug up as easy with all the silt. It's not about power, though there high RPM, high power engines actually might be in the category that could use it. In fact, active participants have posted about damage from silt getting through requiring premature rebuilds (and failures? Dont remember for sure...). And they run prefilters.

Your prefilter suggestion is also flawed, but I'm not getting into that except to say that prefilters are not going to help filtration. They are to help keep out "sticks-n-stones" and increase time before service. And sticks-n-stones is not meant literally, just meaning large particles that clog the main media quickly.

To see the rest you'll have to put some work in if you want to see it. Try different words and use the "advanced search". You can do it if you care. Learning how to search out (in the forum, Google, and so on) information is something that will do more for broadening your horizons that anything I could type.

Now, I'm done again. I mean it this time. If I come back again, somebody PLEASE ban me! :haha: Beating my head on the wall is starting to hurt... Not picking on you DW17, it's just that keep swearing not to get involved again, but like a moth to a flame...
 
rjfguitar said:
Not when K&N buys the engines for a team. It's MARKETING and their efforts have paid off with you.

If K&N approached a very good desert race team and offered to pay for their engine for an exchange of them using their filters, painting K&N all over the truck, and support K&N when they win..... why would they care how well the filter acutally works? They have the engine paid for anyway, plus probably get a bunch of cash towards other parts.

Now you as a consumer sees some desert race team win the Baja 1000 and make a federal case about how the air filter made all the difference in the world....... marketing.
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how did i twist your words? you said it plain and simple and i repeated it.





origianally posted by rfjguitar Thats pretty much how I feel. You can't get anywhere with this kid. He refuses to except anything as factual and correct information unless it's what he thinks. I'm tired of seeing him take and twist our info around.
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whats that kettle? the pot is black?

you have done the same. instead of making it seem like i twisted your words why not answer the question?

you haven't presented any factual evidence, just told me some reputable people did a test... there are about 500 pages every search and it would take days to find it.

I am gonna have to disagree with the prefilter being for larger particules only because it is the sole filter on a dirtbike... 125's wouldn't last 2 days with a filter only for large particles. the prefilter is the same foam as a dirtbikes filter.


its obvious we are not going to get anywhere with this so im done with this one......
 
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