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K5 buyers guide/checklist

Jessie James

1/2 ton status
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Posts
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Location
VA
Here's what I do when looking for a K5:

0. VIN, title, and the previous owner

> VIN check
First and foremost, get the VIN and run a CarFax. Get their monthly plan, it's well worth it. You can see accidents, number of previous owners, mileage and odometer rollbacks, and a ton of other issues. In many cases that "second owner" truck is really the fifth or sixth owner.

> Clear title
Ask the owner if he has "free and clear title in his name". If he does not have title, or says the title is in the previous owner or someone else's name, or anything else, that means you cannot register it. If you try to register it without the seller having his name on it, you will quickly find that it is ILLEGAL (misdemeanor)and is called a "skip title" or "title skipping".

> Salvage titles
I would NEVER buy a vehicle with a salvage title. This means the truck has been majorly wrecked, flooded, or stripped. If wrecked, possibly even so badly damaged that it was deemed unsafe to drive. In some cases, half-assed repairs are made which can kill you if you get in a wreck. The last thing you want is for the cab to crumple or the seat belts to fail putting you in a hospital. If flooded, you can expect major problems with just about everything. If stripped, it may have been put back together quickly/poorly or with cheap/missing parts.

In addition, resale value for a salvage vehicle is a fraction of a regular titled truck. In my opinion, salvage vehicles are for suckers.

> Previous use and abuse
If the seller has listed this online, Google the sellers username. "I was looking at a jeep a few years back, seller described it as being a daily driver, never abused, adult driven. I Googled his username and found him on his local message boards asking how to safely remove his jeep from a "Scary deep mudhole", and then how to clean it so you wouldn't be able to tell it had been in the mud. Several other posts he made about running that jeep WFO through the mud and beating the crap out of it." (Thanks Jeremy C!)


1. Photos.
I typically first ask the seller to lift the carpet in the rear kick panel area and check for rust through the floor/side, just under the front seat belt side mounting point.

Then I ask for pictures before I go and look at it. If they seller makes excuses and doesn't take photos, chances are there is a good reason - the truck probably has issues. Save yourself the headache and move on.

The pictures I ask for are:

> All sides of the truck, the hood, the roof
> Door panels
> Dash (removing dash covers), gauges, glove box, stereo, center console
> Both front and rear seats, including underneath showing the mounting frames for the front seats (rust)
> Floors (removing floor mats)
> Headliner
> Cargo area
> Tailgate when opened
> Hinges for tailgate, from underneath the bumper (rust)
> Inside rear wheel wells, pointing forward (rear passenger kick panels) and backwards (towards tailgate) (rust)
> Lift the edge of the carpet in the rear passenger kick panel / leading portion of the rear wheel well area. (rust)
> Engine - top and oil pan (leaks)
> Transmission, transfer case, differentials (leaks)
> Exhaust (Cat? Aftermarket exhaust? Dead hangers?)
> Tires (dry rot, date codes)

Yes, it's a lot of photos, but it can save you from making a mistake.

2. Inspect everything
When you see it, check everything. All the lights, horn, wipers, radio, A/C and heat, air coming from correct vents, dome lights, gauges, windows, sliding rear windows, power locks, tailgate window key, all seat belts, seat recline, tilt wheel, 4x4 shift lever, EVERYTHING that performs a function.

3. Find the rust.
Inspect underneath for any major rust. Pay special attention to UNDER the tailgate AND in the rear wheel wells for the rear passenger kick panels which rust out.

> When looking at the tailgate from under the truck, behind the bumper, look where the hinges mount. Are they rusting away, or fallen off?

> When looking at the floor behind the front seats, carefully lift back the edge of the carpet from the floor and look carefully. Can you poke a screwdriver, finger, or your entire hand through the edge of the floor/wall? You can also stick your head in the read wheel well, look towards the front of the truck, and check the corner of the read cab area.

> Also check the body to frame mounts. They may be eaten through.

FYI - Many sellers honestly do NOT know about this, so I don't take it personally, but I *do* ask them to check the cab rust before I visit them.

> Check inside the front wheel wells. Often the liner is rusted out.

> Check the rocker panels and bottom seam of the doors.

> Check around the steering box for cracks in the frame. (Thanks royjones)

> Follow the brake and fuel lines. Are they rusty? Mine had pinhole leaks in both the brake AND fuel lines, which required repairs. While you're there, look at the fuel filter. Does it look new-ish, or so crusted with crap that it's 15 years old?

> With your hands, feel for any moisture in the carpet. Check the edges by doors, under the seats, under the dash at the leading edge of the carpet (for windshield seal leaks!), the floor in the rear passenger area (leaks in the roof), edges near the tailgate, and so forth.

Wet = water = rust. Stains can also be telling.

> Inspect closely and maybe smell the seats. Do see mold? Do you smell smoke? Dogs? Gasoline? Mold? Yes, it's yucky to do this, but can give you a clue about what the truck has been through.


4. The cold start pre-tests.
Check the coolant before you start it. Is it green/yellow/orange? Or is it rusty/black/oily?

Feel the header BEFORE you start it. Is it cold? If not, then the seller probably started it right before you got there. That means this truck will not start in anything other than ideal conditions. I've learned this lesson the hard way. Tell the seller you will not buy the truck unless you can come back tomorrow morning and start it cold. You'll find issues with fuel, wrist pins, lifters, etc. are more obvious with a cold engine.

While on your creeper, slide under the front of the engine. Inspect the bottom of the water pump. There should be a small pencil-sized hole. Is it dry? If there is any coolant leaking, the water pump is worn and will need to be replaced. See this search for an example of weep holes:

https://www.google.com/search?q=wat...KsQTt5oHoDQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAg&biw=1266&bih=1288


5. OBD tests
On newer trucks you can pull the computer codes. You can do this easily, here is the list - I just printed out the "generic" section.

http://www.OneWebAve.com/files/ODBI_codes.pdf


Finally, go ahead and start it. My 1991 TBI takes 1-2 seconds to fire up. Immediately look for any smoke coming from the exhaust. White smoke that lingers means bad valve seals and a valve job for you.

> Put your hand on the air cleaner or valve cover. Can you feel the engine vibrating? If so, you have a tune up or mechanical issue. A V8 should be pretty smooth at an idle. Smell the exhaust after it's warmed up about 5-10 minutes. You should not be able to smell much of anything. If you smell gas, either the catalytic converter is not working, missing, or the engine is burning too much gas.

> Put your hand on the power steering pump. Does it rattle? Remove the cap and listen for bad noises.

> Put your hand on the alternator. Does it rattle? It could be going out.

NOTE: The "rattle" test can be misleading. A bad power steering pump can often be "felt" in the alternator. Check them both!

> Listen to the A/C compressor. Does it rattle when NOT engaged? It's probably dead. Does it engage when the A/C is on? (It should!)


6. The test drive
Drive it. Get it up to 65+ MPH (legally). Does it track straight? Does it shake? Does it wander? Does it pull to one side? If you have to turn the wheel more than 1" to feel the direction change, something is wrong with the front end. Could be an alignment, could be ball joints, tires, tire balancing, or a number of other issues.

Make sure it does not handle oddly (or unsafely!) If I am unsure, have the truck taken to an alignment shop and get it aligned. $60 - $75 to do that, but if it cannot be done the shop will tell you why not, complete with a parts list.

If the truck has an auto transmission, see if the shifts are crisp and smooth. If possible, find a gentle grade and give it a little extra gas. Does it sound like the engine is racing faster than the transmission? Does the transmission shudder?

On your test drive, turn the radio off and out the windows up so you can listen for ticks/pops/rattles or other noises that would indicate trouble. LISTEN TO THE TRUCK. It will tell you what is going on.

You should drive it for at least 10-15 minutes, and run it hard to see if it overheats or exhibits an odd problems.

After the test drive, turn it off, wait 5 minutes, and then see if you can start it again. Heat soak issues can cause hard starts. Poor heat shielding from headers can cause the starter to not work when hot.


7. The stop test.
Brakes. Do they squeak? Do they pull to the side when slowing? Do they work well? Does the pedal feel mushy or go to the floor? Does the pedal pulsate? All are problems. Inspect the back side of each tire. Do the tires have little streaks on them? This is leaking brake fluid. Expect to replace parts or experience unexpected wheels locking up if drum brakes.

Find a safe place with NO ONE BEHIND YOU and NOTHING AROUND TO HIT and do a 35mpg emergency stop. Does it stop in a straight line? Do any wheels lock up? Does it stop quickly (for a beastly truck!) enough?


8. The power test
Accelerate. Does it have good power? Does it shift smoothly? Does it hesitate, miss, or just lack power? Check the mirror - is there gray (oil), white (coolant/water), or black (gas) smoke? If so, a tune up or major work may needed.


9. The honest engine test
A dirty engine is what I call an "honest" engine. If there is a little goop/dust/dirt on it, great - the seller is not hiding anything. If the engine is sparkling clean (and the rest of the truck is not) or it looks like it has been cleaned VERY recently, the owner is probably hiding some sort of leak. Also check the tranny, transfer case, and differential covers for leaks.


10. Compression test
Do a compression test. While a leak down test is better, a compression test can be performed quickly and easily, and will give you a good enough idea if there is a problem with the engine. Testers are cheap and easy to use. All you need is a socket wrench to remove the spark plug. Be sure to follow the directions! Disconnect the coil from the distributor cap! (Note: This is partially how I caught my truck on fire! :doah::haha:)


11. The transmission tests
Transmission. If it's an auto, remove the dipstick and inspect the oil. Google for a chart of what it should look like (clear = good, black = bad). Does it smell like it's burnt? That is a sign of potential problems. Power steering fluid can also be inspected.

Manual. Does it shift easily? Remember, on some trucks 1st gear is locked out until you are nearly stopped. This is normal. When you drive, gently rest your hand on the handle. While there will be some vibration, be sure it's not excessive. Once you've driven a few trucks you will know what is normal or not.

On both inspect the front and rear of the transmission for leaks which could indicate bad seals or bearings.


12. Tires.
Check the date codes on the tires, the 4 digit code will tell you a LOT. If you do, you will find out those "great" tires are probably 10 years old. In this example, the tires were made in the third (03) week of 2004 (04) and are probably crap now in 2010!

TireCodeNumbers.jpg


> Check for mis-matched tires. Check for uneven wear, excessive wear, or cupping. You can Google tire wear and get some nice guides. That will tell you if it's out of alignment or needs parts.

> Also check the shocks. If they are covered with rust, they probably need to be replaced.


13. The hacker test
I look under the hood and dash for missing/added wires. Did someone drill a hole through the firewall to hook up a 12v power line for his CB? Did he use a grommet, and fuse it, or is the wire going to cut through and start a fire? Are there hacked wires? Missing vacuum lines? I prefer unmolested trucks.

Also look for water damage. If you see a line of dirt half-way up the cab, the truck may have been used to cross rivers. It may also be a flood victim. Look up underneath the dash. A flooded truck will have evidence of damage behind the dash. I would never buy a flooded vehicle.


14. Lift kits.
Many trucks are lifted. Be sure the job was done right. A loose bolt or bad parts can ruin your day. If the kit was not designed specifically for the truck, or was pieced together, there may be a problem with driving dynamics. Be sure you don't have a death wobble situation or the likes. Personally, I won't buy a truck with a lift kit, as I don't need one for my use.

IF it has a lift and the PO said it was geared as well, bring a couple quarts of gear oil (ask seller what would be preferred) and check for yourself what the actual ratio is. (Thanks lak2004)


15. Body alignment.
Do the doors close without striking the body? Are the fenders perfectly aligned to the body? Or do they have larger gaps or touch the body? The truck may have been wrecked. Bring a fridge magnet and stick it to various body panels. If it falls off, there is Bondo.


16. Odometer fraud.
On pre-1989 trucks (I think) the odometer is only 5 digits. That means you will see LOTS of trucks where the seller says "Only 72k original miles!" Bull! Check the carpet and seats. If they do not look brand new, the truck likely has 172k to 272k miles, probably the later and not the former... A CarFax can help expose that kind of mis-information (I call it lying.) Most of these trucks wear very well for the first 100k miles. 200k you start to see rips in the seat sides and worn carpets. My 1991 with 182k miles has a nearly perfect carpet and seats, for reference.

On 1990+ trucks, inspect the screws that hold the gauge pack together. Have they been removed as evidenced by damage to the screws? Perhaps someone swapped out the entire console.


17. Recent inspection.
Does is pass state inspection? What about emissions testing? When did it pass? Is there a sticker/form that proves it? If not, then the truck likely cannot pass inspection without work, which is why it is being sold. If it's not daily driven and registered, there is likely a reason (except very low mileage trucks).


18. Carpets.
Floor mats, dash mats and seat covers. Remove them to see what horrible problems are being hidden. Check for stains near doors and tailgates that indicate leaks. Check the leading edge under the dash for a leaking windshield seal.


19. Tune up.
Look at the spark plug wires. Do they look relatively new, or are they cracked and faded? Can you remove the distributor cap? If you can't do it easily because of stuck or corroded bolts, maybe it has not been tuned up lately. Pull a spark plug or two and inspect them. (Google for how to identify what spark plug colors mean).

If it is carb'd and you are at a high altitude, make sure it is jetted properly for that altitude. If you cannot verify this yourself, take it to a shop that knows carbs well and have them check for you. (Thanks lak2004!)


20. The screwdriver test.
Look around the cab for all the screws which hold in things like the panels for the headliner, B-pillar covers, door panels, rear panels, gauges, center console, heater & A/C unit, visors, and tailgate trim. Are any missing or loose? If they are, someone has been monkeying with things and that indicates a possible problem, or shoddy workmanship.


21. Cracks in the glass
Carefully check the windshield for cracks larger than a dollar bill. Also check the rear side windows for cracks.



Personally, my experience has almost always been that the seller is hiding something from you. Hopefully it's nothing major, but usually I don't trust everything the seller says. If he can't prove it with a receipt, form, or visually prove it, assume it is NOT true. If he says the engine was rebuilt 30k miles ago, ask if he has the receipt. He probably doesn't. You can always do a compression or leak-down test. New tires? Look at the date code. New exhaust? Check for rust or ask for a recent emissions test. New tranny? Offer to have the fluid changed at a shop, and have them inspect the oil for metal shavings. Everything can be validated to some extent.

I find it FAR more informative to look over the truck WITHOUT speaking to the seller at the same time. That allows me to think, concentrate, and find out everything I want to know. Then if I have questions, I will ask later.

Now, when I pick up a truck, I bring:

> Paper towels (for checking fluids)
> My toolkit. The whole thing, including a torque wrench, compression tester, and remote starter.
> Creeper
> Gloves (rubber and cloth)
> Flares
> 2 quarts of oil, 2 gallons of water, 2 quarts of transmission fluid
> Jumper cables
> Tow strap
> Fire extinguisher
> 2 Fix-a-flat for trucks
> Wire, duct tape, a few zip ties
> Cell phone car charger

DOWNLOAD 2-PAGE PDF VERSION OF THIS CHECKLIST:
http://www.oneWebAve.com/files/K5 Buyers Guide.pdf

Also download the ODB codes:
http://www.OneWebAve.com/files/ODBI_codes.pdf

I hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any suggestions and I will add them!
 
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Thanks guys. I will update it with other things I think of.

Someone mentioned it should be stickied? How do I get nominated? :D
 
Thanks guys!

I will be making a step-by-step buyers guide which you all can print out, question the seller before even seeing it, and take with you.

I just looked at another truck today which failed several points miserably. What should have been a near perfect truck, as described by the seller, turned out to need a LOT more work than my current truck. And it took me 4 hours to drive there, and 4 hours back. I was very disappointed with my experience today, which is frustrating, so maybe I can help others avoid that too.

Or perhaps my crappy rust eaten, dead transmission, blown head gasket truck is worth a lot more than I thought! :haha:
 
Nice list man.

Also have felt the sting of an "over optimistic" seller many times.

Oh, and '89's had 5 digit odo's as well. The seller of mine claimed 84k but CarFax and just looking at it said otherwise.
 
Couple things to add. IF it has a lift and the PO said it was geared as well, bring a couple qts of gear oil (ask seller what would be prefered) and check for yourself what the actual ratio is.

If it is carb'd and you are at a high altitude, make sure it is jetted properly for that altitude. If you cannot verify this yourself, take it to a shop that knows carbs well and have them check for you. I bought my truck in Denver and the PO said it had been rejetted. I later sold that carb and the person I sold it to informed me that it was never changed (would have ran a lot better if I would have known that).
 
Thread stickied...

Rene
thx for taking my suggestion rene.it will definitely help some folks before asking a million times where they should be looking for problems when buying a chevy k5,pickup,or sub,as most have the same problem areas.
 
Next time I buy a truck, your coming with me. :D

Very nice.

Something i have done in the past, if your looking at a truck on a message board. Google the sellers username. I was looking at a jeep a few years back, seller described it as being a daily driver, never abused, adult driven.

Googled his username and found him on his local message boards asking how to safely remove his jeep from a "Scary deep mudhole", and then how to clean it so you wouldn't be able to tell it had been in the mud. Several other posts he made about running that jeep WFO through the mud and beating the crap out of it.

Passed on that one.
 
Thanks for the advice about the username, I've added that to the list as well. :waytogo:

I think you'll have to settle for taking my list, and then I will be with you in spirit! TN is a little far for me! :D
 
Update. I've added a condensed version of the checklist in a 2-page PDF file which you can download. Hopefully that will help on actual test drives. :)
 
I just wanted to point out a prime example of odometer fraud:

This truck

Lists this info:

Price $6,988
Mileage 32,156
Body Style
Sport Utility
Exterior Color White
Interior Color Gray
Engine 8 Cylinder Gasoline
Transmission Automatic
Drive Type 4 wheel drive - rear
Fuel Type
Gasoline
Doors Two Door
Stock No.
12698
VIN 1GKEV18K2KF533510
Being sold by:
Siemer Auto Center, LLC

1-866-936-9024

So I ran a CarFax on it, and big surprise, well over 138k miles on the truck.

02/08/2010
138,590 miles
This is why I don't trust sellers.

I reported the ad to AutoTrader as fraud, because it is.
 
For obvious reasons don't look at a vehicle in the dark! I always meet the owner at their house because you can tell a lot about the vehicle just by seeing where and how the owner lives. Ask to see where the vehicle is parked regularly, check for oil spots ect. If the owner has garbage laying around, nasty looking yard, BROKEN DOWN CARS, is he clean and presentable? these are all things I consider when looking at a car while not always a deal breaker it's at least something to consider. Like he said I like to look at a car without talking a whole lot cause you can rest assured that a guy that talks a lot is usually trying to divert your attention. I know it's been said a billion times but the most important thing is always, If it seems to good to be true rest assured it is after all nobody just gets rid of a really good vehicle for nothing! Bring a lot of common sense and trust your gut.
 
Another tip - when I buy a new vehicle, I presume the seller has not done any maintenance. I perform the following work:

> Oil change
> transmission fluid change
> Differential oil change
> New plugs, wires, cap & rotor (and points on older cars)
> Inspect the brake pads and replace if needed
> Flush coolant & replace thermostat
> Check the power steering fluid
> Check the A/C
> Replace wiper blades
> Top up the windshield washer fluid
> Change the air filter
> Change the fuel filter
> Inspect fuel injectors (TBI) or rebuild carb [depending on performance & MPG]
> Test or inspect EGR, PCV, MAP, MAF, TPS, and other engine control do-dads.
> Inspect cold air stove pipe to air filter housing and cold air valve in air filter housing for proper function
> Run a bottle of STP or similar fuel system cleaner through a new tank of gas.
> Flush brake fluid
> Check vacuum lines for breaks
> Check engine compartment wires for breaks
> Check for leaks (oil/coolant)
> Clean engine/tranny (top to bottom) with Foamy Engine Brite. This way if there are leaks I will be able to spot them later.
> Have it aligned (which will also find problems with the suspension)
 
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What about sellers that have "bill of sale" only. Should I be weary of this. I found a '75 K5 for $1,500 that runs and the 4x4 works, but the seller only has a bill of sale.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mitchell
 
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