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k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef'm up or buy new axles?

Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

*on a side note: your 88 might already have a tranny cooler, i know my 88 already does
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

What Matt said in spades!! Come on out and play with us. If for nuthin else you can watch what Wimpy can and can't do and I think you'd be moderately surprised. She just has a 12 bolt in the back and a 10 in the front (both open) with about 4 inches of lift and 33x12.5's but we are plannin on a locker of some type for the rear. Matt is again right about the bypasses or you can just set and watch what the big boys can do. If y'all have kids bring them along. Ours have an absolute blast and they're only 3 and a half.
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

Good stuff. I'm also exploring axle options. I use my '86 bout the same as az88k5 describes. Don't really need or want to spend big bucks for the big stuff. But I've got stock 3.08 gears with open 12b rear and 10b front, no posi, and 33s. So looking at cheap options to get the gearing down and a little more hookup. Was thinking I'd start visiting the local pull-n-save and see if I could scrounge up a posi for the rear and some lower gears. Considering 3.75s or 4.10s. Not sure which would be better. I'll be driving it from Denver to ski slopes all winter. So don't want or need anything radical but want a little insurance getting through snow on hunting trips. 3.75s or 4.10s? Am I likely to have any luck finding the parts in the junk yards?
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
Good stuff. I'm also exploring axle options. I use my '86 bout the same as az88k5 describes. Don't really need or want to spend big bucks for the big stuff. But I've got stock 3.08 gears with open 12b rear and 10b front, no posi, and 33s. So looking at cheap options to get the gearing down and a little more hookup. Was thinking I'd start visiting the local pull-n-save and see if I could scrounge up a posi for the rear and some lower gears. Considering 3.75s or 4.10s. Not sure which would be better. I'll be driving it from Denver to ski slopes all winter. So don't want or need anything radical but want a little insurance getting through snow on hunting trips. 3.75s or 4.10s? Am I likely to have any luck finding the parts in the junk yards?

[/ QUOTE ] If you don't mind going 3/4 ton, 3.73 and 4.10 are comman. I still belive it's cheaper too swap in some 3/4 ton axles then too regear the stock 1/2 tons.
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
Good stuff. I'm also exploring axle options. I use my '86 bout the same as az88k5 describes. Don't really need or want to spend big bucks for the big stuff. But I've got stock 3.08 gears with open 12b rear and 10b front, no posi, and 33s. So looking at cheap options to get the gearing down and a little more hookup. Was thinking I'd start visiting the local pull-n-save and see if I could scrounge up a posi for the rear and some lower gears. Considering 3.75s or 4.10s. Not sure which would be better. I'll be driving it from Denver to ski slopes all winter. So don't want or need anything radical but want a little insurance getting through snow on hunting trips. 3.75s or 4.10s? Am I likely to have any luck finding the parts in the junk yards?

[/ QUOTE ]

Forget posi anything for rock crawling, they're absolutely worthless. Get a locker. If you spend any money anywhere spend it on some kind of locker (lockright, Detroit)
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
I agree 100%. If I had it to do all over again, I'd still be 3/4 ton, still have 35s, and I'd spend the money on lockers, gears, and a winch instead of big tires and axles. And I'd actually have some time/money to take my girlfriend out once in a while.

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For once I agree with Tim, this is good advice. And what Matt said, and what Alan said.

I understand the urge to upgrade, I promise you I understand it. It's a hard urge to resist. Like the others said, we have some of the best time with all sorts of rigs, if you decide that this is what you want to do, then start figuring out what to do. Locker are number one. First thing to look at, and I would only do one in the rear to start, but only after you wheel some.

We are going to have a run on the 15th of this month, come out and meet up with us, it's a blast, and if you have kids, bring um. I usually have at least my son, Joey with us. And most of the time I my daughter with me, Nina. Our wheeling is about he fun times we have not what we have to run. You would be greatly suprised to find out that we always don't run the big dawg trails, it's basically what the group decides to run, if we all decide to run a lesser trail, than so be it. Big dawgs and all usually run the trails together.

One of our major mottos is, if we all head off the the trails together, we all leave together, no questions asked... Big Dawgs, Little Dawgs, Stocker, Visitors, we all leave the trails together and NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND.

Rob
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
Forget posi anything for rock crawling, they're absolutely worthless. Get a locker. If you spend any money anywhere spend it on some kind of locker (lockright, Detroit)

[/ QUOTE ]
I would almost agree except when it comes to running half ton drive train. Yes they don't give you a 50/50 torque split, but that little bit of extra torque not being sent to the wheel with the most resistance can keep that axle from exploding; yet, the torque it does get will still help you keep churning ahead.

As for the one-tons... I love my d60 and the piece of mind I have running it. I wouldn't trade it for anything! But I know it’s not what everyone else needs. The only issue I take with the other guys here is when they advocate running a 10-12 bolt rear and w/ locker and chrome-molly shafts. You could be running a bomb proof 14b w/ 4.10s and a Detroit for less than a $500 total investment--and that's running a brand new Detroit locker in it! Your 10b locker alone can cost that much! Not to mention gears, set up kit and those expensive and still breakable chrome-molly shafts (it's still a c-clip axle). The logic for running the 14b is simple. It's not that you necessarily need the extra strength; it's just the cheapest way to go by several hundred dollars.
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
... we all leave the trails together and NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND...

[/ QUOTE ]
/forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

For AZ wheelng with 35's 1/2's work if you can keep out of the skinny pedal. Front 1/2 ton's can last awhile with a locker and no chromo as long as you are smart. The reason I advocate chromo's in the rear axle is because they are cheap ($300) and when a stock axleshaft breaks in the rear axle the axleshaft explodes like a grenade went off. Fronts just bust cleanly and are pretty easy to deal with. Rears take alot of time in cleaning the axle out of pieces and require dropping the diff cover.

I run a 14bff for the reason you mentioned. Bombproof. But the problem here is the clearence it takes away in the rocks. I can not honestly say I would have done anything different with my axles had I known better at the time when I installed them but I am paranoid about breaking stuff and that is why i got the 14bff.

Harley
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

No matter what--a 14FF will ALWAYS get you home. That is why there is one in my rig. I wouldn't trade it for anything...but a Dana 60 and 38.5+ tires just aren't necessary to have a good time.
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[quoteThe only issue I take with the other guys here is when they advocate running a 10-12 bolt rear and w/ locker and chrome-molly shafts. You could be running a bomb proof 14b w/ 4.10s and a Detroit for less than a $500 total investment--and that's running a brand new Detroit locker in it!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a reality in AZ, you can't even buy the front axle in this state for $500.00 it this were the case, I would own one. Cheapest you can purchase on here is around 1500.00. When you find a 60/14 bolt combo for 500.00 w/ a new detroit in it, let me know, I want to be put on the list. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rob
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

Ok, so the benefits of a 14b ff are clear. But it seems like there's quite a few additional expenses involved. Aren't you going from 6 bolt to 8 bolt and therefore have to buy wheels and tires? And if you swap out the rear with lower gears and 8 bolts then don't you also need to do the same for the front? That seems very expensive to me by the time it's all done. I've got some pretty nice wheels and nearly new 33s on my 6 bolts.

Also, I can certainly understand the recs for lockers. But, for me personally I don't really plan on doing any rock crawling in my Jimmy and any off roading I would be doing would be primarily limited to places just a little extra ground clearance is needed. The worst case scenario for me would be a deep snow situation and I think I'll get some chains to help with that a bit. But, I can't see going to automatic lockers when one of my biggest uses will be getting back and forth from the ski slopes up and down potentially icy road conditions. In that case it seems like the negatives of an automatic locker outweigh the positives. Air lockers are certainly a good solution but they're a very costly one. I did see that Detroit is coming out with an electric locker, but suspect they will be costly as well.

So given that I want to get to a lower gear of say 4.10 from the stock 3.08s it seems to make sense for me economically to find a posi spool and the gears used or buy the gears and have them installed for a few hundred on each end. That's not the best traction solution, but this is a vehicle that's going to spend 95%+ of it's time on the street with. I can see a winch in the near future.

So it seems to me that a 14b ff axle swap and auto lockers are the irresistible overkill written about here.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only issue I take with the other guys here is when they advocate running a 10-12 bolt rear and w/ locker and chrome-molly shafts. You could be running a bomb proof 14b w/ 4.10s and a Detroit for less than a $500 total investment--and that's running a brand new Detroit locker in it!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a reality in AZ, you can't even buy the front axle in this state for $500.00 it this were the case, I would own one. Cheapest you can purchase on here is around 1500.00. When you find a 60/14 bolt combo for 500.00 w/ a new detroit in it, let me know, I want to be put on the list. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]
I was talking about just the 14b... not the combo w/ the 60. I haven't seen a 60 go for less than $750 and that's one needing a complete overhaul. You should be able to get a 14b for around $100-200.
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...The logic for running the 14b is simple. It's not that you necessarily need the extra strength; it's just the cheapest way to go by several hundred dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... And then you need different wheels, upgrade the front to 8-lug, where 15 inch wheels won't fit (and grinding calipers for a vehicle that sees highway use is just not right in my book, but suit yourself, it's only your brakes!), so you need 16s or 17s, and that means new tires....

[/ QUOTE ]

There are six lug adapters that will bring the rear wheels even to the front's track width and allow you to retain your current 6-lug wheels AND keep you from grinding the brake caliper. Even if the 6-lug adapters cost $300 you still come out ahead money-wise.

START RANT:
I'm not slamming someone who might want to stay with their 1/2 ton axles--hell, I just got my front 60 a few months ago myself. I ran 10 bolts for years without breaking them, but I had to drive it very carefully. To me, always having to take the easy line wasn't all that fun; so, now I have one-tons.
END RANT

All I’m saying is that someone considering lockers AND a gear change (that is, someone who has NO MOENY in their current 10b REAR) the 14b is the way to go. If he already had the gears but no locker or locker but no gears then I’d say stay with the 10b. Again, the 14b is the logical choice because you can have it for less than the cost of upgrading a 10b. Period.
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

Where you live you may have to take the easy line to wheel 1/2 tons but here in AZ you can take all the hard lines with 1/2 tons.

A 14bff is the right answer for most but in AZ it doesn't have to be the answer. For $500 you can add a Lockright and a set of Chromo axle shafts to a 10 bolt rear or 12 bolt rear and be set to run HARD trail in AZ as long as you aren't driving like a moron.

You can run all the hard trails with a stock 1/2 ton fronts too as long as you don't drive like a moron. You will break the shafts eventually but that is the nature of the game. Have spares, no big deal.

I realize in other parts of the country this isn't the case but here in AZ it is. Keep the 35's and 1/2 tons and wheel the piss out of it. Marv did it for years, Rob still does it, Mikey does it, I run a 3/4 ton front, Paul is running 1/2 ton, Jay runs 3/4 ton front, etc. D60's are the minority around here cause they are not necessary. 14bff are middle ground. I run one for the beef, but if I would have known better in the beginning I would probably have a chromo'ed 12 bolt.

Harley
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

Wheel spin is rare on AZ rocks. There is a smaller chance for snap loading the drivetrain. That is where driver control comes in. If it is hopping and slipping, shut it down and change your line. ! ton just lets you hop more. Besides I would rather blow 3 shafts on one trail (I have seen that done) than explode a single t-case (I have seen that done too).
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles?

I pretty much have the same ride as you do (81 K-5 10B, 12B, 4" lift with 33X12.50's) and have had zero problems in doing runs with the Havasu 4 Wheelers. Several of them recommended that I don't go on the trails rated 3 or 4 without having lockers and I have yet to be strapped or winched. Just go enjoy yourself and your fellow off roaders will be there to assist when needed. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
89 was the intro year for the 241. The only 88's that got 241's were the new body style IFS crap.

88-91 was a confusing time for GM with the body style changeover taking as long as it did.

The best way to know for sure is to crawl under and check the ID tag. It's a round reddish colored tag which will say what T-case it is for sure. Even if you did have the 241, you wouldn't be able to run the Super Short SYE kit due to the mechanical speedo. The super short kit is only for the electronic speedo versions (90 and newer)

Rene

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I got under my 88 K5 the other day and it is the NP241. I'm not sure if the previous owner put that TC in or the factory did. Anyway I guess I will be putting the STD SYE kit in my truck due to the mechanical speedo. If in fact that is what I have and not the electronic speedo. I read this on offroaddesign.com " If you have a mechanical speedometer (1989 GM's) you'll need to use the standard length kit, if you have the electronic speedo, you can use either one." I guess they mean every truck before 1989 has the mechanical speedo and can not use the super short SYE only the standard one.
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

Cool... /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I've herd it mentioned that it is possible to have the 241 in an '88, just never herd of anyone who actually had one. My '88 had the 208.

So, did you figure out which direction you are going w/ your axles? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Re: k5 w/stock 1/2 ton axles go with lockers and beef\'m up or buy new axles

[ QUOTE ]
Don't fall for that 1 ton crap!!! I say don't!!! It is over rated,

[/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
 
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