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Leaking Solenoid

anwat

anwat

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I have a Cole_Hersee 24059 Solenoid installed on the cable leading to my aux fuseblock. It's brand new, just installed it and when I checked to make sure it worked, when open, it shows 1.6v consistently. Closed, it shows 12.6. Tried with a second meter, it shows 1.3 open, 12.3 closed. So, obviously, I've got an inaccurate meter, one of them, but shouldn't that show 0v or in the low mV area when it's open? Is it something I should worry about, or is it just a sign of poor quality control? Seems to me a switch shouldn't leak voltage....
 
As I'm researching this, I discover I've mounted the solenoid upside down, with the printed cap up. Never knew they were directional. Could that be the problem? It's going to be a real pain to try to turn it over, the wires are cut to how it's mounted now....
 
It seemed to me the cap would go up. Proves I don't know much. If I'm not mistaken, there's a magnet that pulls the switch closed. I'm thinking it needs gravity to pull it apart, and maybe it's not completely opening...but that would just mean 12v with a crappy contact, not 1.something volts.
 
Turned it over, rewired it to include cutting the wrong wire and having to make a new cable but it still has the same readings on the meter. I guess it's time to try another solenoid and see if that leakage is normal. Odd that it's a lower voltage, I wonder where it's getting eaten inside that little can.
 
How are you measuring that voltage? If you have the battery hooked to one larger terminal, and nothing to the other, you should not get anything to ground. If the meter is sensitive enough, and you had some condensation inside or outside, you might read some millivolts, but thats all.
If you have anything hooked to the other terminal, then its most likely its backfeeding from there.
If both large terminals are disconnected, with the solenoid off, you should read high megaohms between the two terminals. The plastic or paper insulators around the terminals are not perfect, they could leak in the high megaohm range especially the paper ones when damp.
But you should not see that kind of voltage.
Of course, with no load, some leakage voltage with no amps can build up as a capacitive effect, but you should be able to kill that with your finger almost.
Sure sounds like some kind of voltage leaking in from elsewhere.
 
I'm measuring it with the lead to the aux fuseblock hooked to the switched terminal, so theres everything hoooked to that cconnected. as soon as I get home, I'll check it without it connected and see what ive got.
 
Update: I measured the voltage with everything disconnected, and the solenoid turned the right way. It has 12.6 volts coming in from the battery. Open, it has 124mV, or thereabouts. It fluctuates up and down, but seems to loiter in that area. Closed, 12.6v. With the cable to the Aux block attached, it reads 0.2v and 12.6v. I tried measuring the cable leading to the aux fuseblock while it was disconnected, and it reads 0.2v.
Based on that, is the solenoid bad? You were saying voltage in the mV range was to be expected, so I'm assuming we're OK with that. That means that the 0.2V is coming in from the aux fuseblock...should I be concerned about that and try to track it down? There are several items in the truck that have a constant draw, the CB and radio both are connected to the aux block and have wires that are not switched. Could that be the source of the 0.2V? I also have one cooling fan hooked directly to the battery so that it runs after the ignition is off, and the controller for that fan is also on a constant hot lead. Dome light, and that's about it.
I don't have any issues with the batteries holding a charge, even after sitting for several weeks, it's still 12.5 or above. I just want to make sure something isn't wired wrong. Someone I don't put a lot of faith in once told me that if you have sparks when you hook the ground cable of the battery up, it means something is wrong with your wiring. Never put much stock in that comment, but now I'm wondering.
 
124mv could be your meter, not something I would worry about. Any load at all will 0 that. If you have a spark when you connect neg batt cable you have a load on, if every thing is supposed to be off then thats a problem. The .2v is back feeding from the battery to the fuse box, i suspect the fan controller. A diode at the controller + tap point, dome lamp, should solve that.
 
I've tracked it to the 5v transformer I have behind the dash to run my satellite radio and a usb charging port. It measures 0.4 to 0.6 volts on the wire that should be supplying the power to it all the time. Is the transformer bad? I take it feedback is different than a draw on the battery, since this is current on the other side of the removed fuse.
If I stick a diode in the circuit which only allows current in, will that impact anything else? Is putting a diode in fixing the problem or only fixing the symptom? And finally, what would the voltage and amp rating on the diode need to be? The transformer is rated at 5.5v and 5 amps.
 
The trans former is still a draw, the battery is supplying the current.
They are always drawing current if un-switched.
5 amps seems a lot, I would think it's .5 amps.
A diode here will only stop the feed back to Cole Hersee solenoid.
This item should be sufficient for that circuit.
Cafurty 1N4007 DO-41 Axial Silastic Guard Junction Standard Rectifier Diode (Pack of 20) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W17LOBO/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_RH02PJGRH5RRY6Q1F2RS
Another option would be to put it on its own toggle switch, you could leave it on while enjoying your truck, and turn it off when truck is stored.
The leak back to Cole Hersee solenoid, should be a non issue while truck is in use. Thou I'm not familiar with circuit you have and could be wrong here.
 
OK, now that you say that, it just struck me as being very strange. There are three wires to the transformer. Red and Black, power in and ground. The yellow wire out is the 5.5v. I unplugged the red wire, and am measuring the red wire that comes from the transformer to the truck body and am getting about 0.6v. How is that possible if the transformer isn't connected to anything supplying power? I couldn't find the item, but heres what I have in there...it's actually 10A, not 5.

trans.JPG
 
Been trying to jump in here, but things keep happening around me that I have to deal with.
First of all, its obviously not a transformer. For one reason, transformers don't work with DC, and for another, you need a DC output to power your equipment, which you won't get out of a transformer.
Its an active power supply which converts 12-24volts DC to 5 volts DC.
Which means there is a lot of stuff in there. Including, I'm sure, several capacitors. Which could easily be the cause of the voltage you are getting with it unhooked.
Try grounding the red wire for a few minutes and see if the voltage mostly goes away.
By that, I mean the red wire coming out of the power supply, not the feed from the battery................
Also, various random voltages are always going to be present on various unhooked wires if the meter has high enough resistance and is sensitive enough.
Don't forget just the Seebeck effect, the opposite of the Peltier effect, also known as a thermocouple, will generate a voltage when two dissimilar metals are brought together.
There is very little current produced, but since most meters today have many megaohms per volt resistance, they don't load down a circuit.
After you ground a "leaky" wire, if you still have a few millivolts, try setting your meter on the high amps range and see how much current the device is producing.
Make sure, of course that you do not use the amps range on a circuit hooked to a strong battery.
Always start on the highest amp range and work down. If you get into the milliamp range and still have no reading, then its just stray noise voltage from thermocouples, and random RF in the atmosphere.
 
On it. Of course, it's hard to forget the Seebeck effect, since I never even heard of it. That's whats great about this place...You get so much knowledge from experts just for asking. Point taken regarding the power supply. I was thinking it was called a "buck/boost transformer". But that would only be with AC, so I'm thinking it must have been a "buck/boost converter?" Either way, I'm off to take some measurements...back in a few minutes.
 
And there you have it. Grounded the red wire, measured the voltage and we're at 1.4mV. I can't get an amp reading, it's too low. Went back to the solenoid, and after grounding the wire, it's reading 1.3mV when open, so that's clearly where the voltage was coming from.
So now the question is, is this a problem? Or can I just leave it as is and not worry about it? Do I need the diode in the circuit? The only other things on this circuit are the CB and a race radio. Could that causing the spark when i reconnect the battery, or should I continue to search for a draw somewhere?
 
If the door is open or the dome is on when battery is connected you will get a spark. That said if you have a spark and everything is supposed to off, you have a draw that will kill the battery in just a few days or less. You should figure out what the draw is. I use a 12 volt lamp connected from neg batt to neg batt cable, it will light when there is a draw. Pull fuses till light goes out. If light doesn't go out disconnect batt + feed to alt.

I disconnect the batt on my dune buggy for storage. I have a usb 5.5v w/ led plug, and a rugged 60w vhf/intercom system, when I reconnect no spark.
 
You’re a little confused about electricity I think. You can measure a voltage somewhere but that doesn’t mean it’s drawing a noticeable current from the battery. You need to be measuring if there’s current flowing somewhere with your ammeter. As Fordum pointed out, the capacitor will store a charge like a battery and shorting it out removes that charge.
And having a spark when connecting wires doesn’t mean anything. Once again, it could just be a capacitor charging up. You need to see if anything has a constant current draw. I’d start with measuring at the battery.
 
Since you don't get a current reading, it should not be any problem. Remember just static electricity can build up to thousands of volts with no current.
Measuring down to the millivolt range will turn up all kinds of stray voltages. If they don't have any current, then they can be disregarded for any current drawing device. The reason you are seeing them, is because your meter does not load them down enough to bleed off the charge on the voltage setting.
The only time you run into trouble with what is basically static voltage, is when the device is high resistance and voltage sensitive.
Such as the old CMOS devices that all came with shorting rings on all the legs. They basically had no connection between the input or control pins and the output pins. There was a microscopic layer of insulator between the two, and the voltage potential controlled the output with basically no current draw on the input.
As a result, high static voltage could build up on the input since there was no path to ground. When the voltage got high enough, it would blast through the insulating layer and destroy the device.
You still have to be careful with them, and practice good static control by using a ground strap on your wrist or being careful to ground yourself before touching them.
But most of the ones made today have protective zener diodes, or Metal Oxide Varistors built in to fire and conduct unsafe voltages away before the device gets damaged.
Even so, they ship in conductive bags, and you need to be cautious.
The SeeBeck effect is the name for how a thermocouple works. When you have two dissimilar metals joined together, a voltage is generated when they are warmed.
The amount of voltage is proportional to the temperature. So they make good thermometers.
You probably have heard of the Peltier effect. It shows up in ads for coolers that run off car batteries.
Its the opposite of the SeeBeck. If you force voltage through a thermocouple, one side gets cold and the other side gets hot.
So, you can build a solid state refrigerator.
They don't work really well. They are limited to a certain temperature difference, not an absolute temperature. So if its 90 degrees outside, they will only get to about 60 or so. Probably not even that cold.
 
Thank you, gentlemen...you are a wealth of information...and yes, I will be the first to admit I only know enough about electricity to get myself in real trouble. Usually with a lot of swearing when I shock myself or hear that pop that you know is going to cost a lot. But I learn more every time I try something, and I do know to stay away from any of the high amp stuff. That's why I have a brother in law who is an electrician, he comes over with his fancy gloves and handles all that stuff so I can stay alive.
I had figured the spark thing wasn't a good indicator, since I never have low or dead batteries, I didn't think anything was draining when the truck was off, but when I saw voltage where I didn't think there should be any, I started to worry.

Is the Seebeck effect why you can't use regular screws and bolts when working with copper sheeting? Is the corrosion caused by the elecrical current from the different metals?
 
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