LED & HID driving light positioning

[K20Chevrolet]

Hi,

does anybody have HID driving lights or LED light bars installed on their square body Chevy or GMC?

I´d like to see different set ups for the bumper and roof/roll bar to help me decide what to do on my truck. Getting a new winch bumper and I want to get the setup mocked up before getting the bumper powder coated.
(Has someone maybe frenched in some LED light bars into the grill?)

Thanks

 

[ktmoutfront]

Don't mount them at the front of the roof. The reflection off of the hood makes it hard to see. If you go roof, move its back as far as you can.

In the grill at the top would be optimum. Haven't see none done though.

 

[miniwally]

What is your desired result from the lights.

In a nut shell Grill/bumper mounted lights are great at short distance to medium distance, Roof lights are great for medium to long distance. Roof lights actually sort of bring the suck because of the light spilling over and lighting up the hood. The way you get around that is to have enough grill/bumper lights to make the world bright right in front of the vehicle so that the bright light on the hood doesn't glare as bad.

If this was me and the cost was not the primary concern I would install two Baja designs Squadron lights in the grill with them aimed slightly outboard as a cornering beam, then I would fill in the middle with a 10" stealth bar. These could all be run off of their dimming controller.
I have had this setup up to 80+ MPH on a dark and secluded lake bed. We wanted more light out at a distance but close in it was great.

If you felt like you wanted more long distance light a Baja Designs Onyx bar int eh 40" length will take you to the point of good light to 100+ MPH.

Keep in mind a lot of this isn't going to be usable on the street and you will shutoff roof mounted lights in heavy trees etc. because they will be too bright and glare off the trees too much.

LED lights can be turned on and off with very little harm to the lights, HID will burn out the igniter with constant on off use.

 

[K20Chevrolet]

Don't mount them at the front of the roof. The reflection off of the hood makes it hard to see. If you go roof, move its back as far as you can.

In the grill at the top would be optimum. Haven't see none done though.

That is what I have heard too. If there would be roof lights, then they´d be mounted behind the cab on a roll bar. But actually more on that in a following post....

 

[K20Chevrolet]

What is your desired result from the lights.

In a nut shell Grill/bumper mounted lights are great at short distance to medium distance, Roof lights are great for medium to long distance. Roof lights actually sort of bring the suck because of the light spilling over and lighting up the hood. The way you get around that is to have enough grill/bumper lights to make the world bright right in front of the vehicle so that the bright light on the hood doesn't glare as bad.

If this was me and the cost was not the primary concern I would install two Baja designs Squadron lights in the grill with them aimed slightly outboard as a cornering beam, then I would fill in the middle with a 10" stealth bar. These could all be run off of their dimming controller.
I have had this setup up to 80+ MPH on a dark and secluded lake bed. We wanted more light out at a distance but close in it was great.

If you felt like you wanted more long distance light a Baja Designs Onyx bar int eh 40" length will take you to the point of good light to 100+ MPH.

Keep in mind a lot of this isn't going to be usable on the street and you will shutoff roof mounted lights in heavy trees etc. because they will be too bright and glare off the trees too much.

LED lights can be turned on and off with very little harm to the lights, HID will burn out the igniter with constant on off use.

Thank you for the info. More on the lights I have already ina following post...

So you think an Onx bar and some squadrons will be enough for close range and high range? I have just heard that the LED bars are great for close range, but if you want really long distance lighting, that an HID pencil beam is still shining further than an LED bar....

Do you ahve any experiance with the BD OnX long range optics? Will they really come close to an HID pencile like it is advertized?

 

[K20Chevrolet]

Ok,

I should have mentioned that in my first post, I already have a ton of HID lights on the truck (4x Hella Rallye 4000 HID euro & 3x Hella Rallye 4000 pencil). Two euros are on the bumper and the two others plus the pencils are on a light bar in the bed. The light output is amazing.

BUT, with the light bar on the truck, it doesn´t fit inside the garage, it´s too high with 8" lights up top. Therefore I mostly leave it off to not mess with it every time I go in and out of the garage.
Another problem is, if you turn them on an off a lot, they won´t last very long. Not so much an issue for the top lights, but more for the ones mounted on the bumper.

That is why my idea was to maybe mount a LED bar up top that is shallower and would make the truck fit in the garage. But since I´m unsure about the distance (up top, pencil lights make more sense) of the LED bars, I´m wondering wether that would be a good choice or not, considering the Hella pencils have 1 Lux at 1290m! That is f&%$ing far! Even the Euros have one Lux at ~500m.

So I made up these scenarios for the truck:

1. LED bar up top and LED bar on the bumper with small LED cornering lights, ditching the HIDs all together

2. Keeping the HIDs on the bumper, just adding the cornering LEDs and the LED bar up top

3. Ditching the roof lights all together and keeping the HID euros on the bumper and add two HID pencils on the bumper as well, also LED cornering lights. (Problem might be that the 4 8" lights block a lot of airflow to the radiator)

4. LED bar on bumper with two HID pencil beams for distance and the LED cornering lights

5. Some kind of LED setup in grille or bumper that does cornering, close range and long distance

[for a cleaner look, the OnX 1 cell would fit in the grille openings, so that could be hidden very well]

Therefore I was wondering what other people run, their experiance with the HID vs. LED and how they mounted theirs.

I really hate to ditch the 4000 HIDs, they were $$$ and put out more than enough light...

(sure I could mount them on a fold down light rack up top, but if I motorize that, that´ll be big $$$ too and even more wiring)

Wiring on the LED´s should be easier too with only one realy for en entire bar versus multiple relays for all the HIDs.

Thanks for all the input!

 

[miniwally]

Thank you for the info. More on the lights I have already ina following post...

So you think an Onx bar and some squadrons will be enough for close range and high range? I have just heard that the LED bars are great for close range, but if you want really long distance lighting, that an HID pencil beam is still shining further than an LED bar....

Do you ahve any experiance with the BD OnX long range optics? Will they really come close to an HID pencile like it is advertized?

I have been a BD designs fan since sometime in 2005? I bought my first set of Fuegos from them and have been impressed with their lights and service ever since.

LED light technology has come so far in the last few years that it's amazing. LED lenses 2 years ago were just barely starting to reach the range of a good 8" HID. Today they are there.

We switched out 4 BD 6" prerunners for a 32" OnX bar for KOH this year. The OnX has the distance hands down. I think the reason you hear that LED's don't have the range is because they have a beam pattern that is a bit broader than a pencil beam HID. As you know a Pencil beam HID will light the hell out of a single bush a mile away. A good LED will light the bush and a bit more at the same distance.

 

[ktmoutfront]

What kind of speeds are you trying to run at night?

I wouldnt even bother with HID's if you can afford LEDs.

 

[TheBeast_88K5]

Mine are like this:

My whole rig is rewired, but this could easily be accomplished though the factory harness.
Also, KTM is right... If you can afford adequate LED's, BUY THEM.
There's no comparison.

 

[K20Chevrolet]

I have been a BD designs fan since sometime in 2005? I bought my first set of Fuegos from them and have been impressed with their lights and service ever since.

LED light technology has come so far in the last few years that it's amazing. LED lenses 2 years ago were just barely starting to reach the range of a good 8" HID. Today they are there.

We switched out 4 BD 6" prerunners for a 32" OnX bar for KOH this year. The OnX has the distance hands down. I think the reason you hear that LED's don't have the range is because they have a beam pattern that is a bit broader than a pencil beam HID. As you know a Pencil beam HID will light the hell out of a single bush a mile away. A good LED will light the bush and a bit more at the same distance.

So you think that a 4 or 5 cell OnX bar could very well replace the 8" euro beam and 8" pencil beam Hellas without sacraficing any of the broad spread and the huge distance these HIDs produce?

I just want to make sure not to spend money on the LEDs and then not get the same output that I get with my HIDs....

 

[K20Chevrolet]

What kind of speeds are you trying to run at night?

I wouldnt even bother with HID's if you can afford LEDs.

I already have 7 HID Hellas, the question is wether I can change them for LED without having less light...

Speeds, I would guess up to at least 100 mph, maybe 120 mph tops.

 

[K20Chevrolet]

Mine are like this:



My whole rig is rewired, but this could easily be accomplished though the factory harness.
Also, KTM is right... If you can afford adequate LED's, BUY THEM.
There's no comparison.

If I would get LEDs, the sale price of my 7 HIDs would probably cover the price of the LEDs, at least most of it.

 

[miniwally]

So you think that a 4 or 5 cell OnX bar could very well replace the 8" euro beam and 8" pencil beam Hellas without sacraficing any of the broad spread and the huge distance these HIDs produce?

I just want to make sure not to spend money on the LEDs and then not get the same output that I get with my HIDs....

I say yes but seeing how I haven't used a Hella light personally and don't know the beam spreads and patterns I would say you need to talk with someone like Baja Designs and Rigid. Both are good LED makers and will have their own take on things.

If I would get LEDs, the sale price of my 7 HIDs would probably cover the price of the LEDs, at least most of it.

7 hids might sell for enough on the used market to buy an OnX bar. I usually look at parts as being worth 50% of new retail value, then they decline from there.

 

[K20Chevrolet]

I say yes but seeing how I haven't used a Hella light personally and don't know the beam spreads and patterns I would say you need to talk with someone like Baja Designs and Rigid. Both are good LED makers and will have their own take on things.

I´m actually going to talk to someone at BajaDesigns today and see what they have to say. I´m sure their products are great, but of course they will tell me the HIDs I have are worse so they can sell the LED bars.
Besides the huge light force HIDs the hella 4000 xenon pencil is the light with the most distance. You get one lux (enough ligh to read a newspaper) at almost a mile away, but very focused...

If you say that the spread on your OnX bar is great, I might consider a "driving/combo" Onx on the bumper, together with keeping the pencil beam Hella HIDs and maybe a set of squadron floods angled out as cornering lights

7 hids might sell for enough on the used market to buy an OnX bar. I usually look at parts as being worth 50% of new retail value, then they decline from there.

If I´d keep two pencils but sell 4 euros and a pencil, that should pay for a 3 or 4 cell OnX bar...

 

[miniwally]

I´m actually going to talk to someone at BajaDesigns today and see what they have to say. I´m sure their products are great, but of course they will tell me the HIDs I have are worse so they can sell the LED bars.
Besides the huge light force HIDs the hella 4000 xenon pencil is the light with the most distance. You get one lux (enough ligh to read a newspaper) at almost a mile away, but very focused...

If you say that the spread on your OnX bar is great, I might consider a "driving/combo" Onx on the bumper, together with keeping the pencil beam Hella HIDs and maybe a set of squadron floods angled out as cornering lights




If I´d keep two pencils but sell 4 euros and a pencil, that should pay for a 3 or 4 cell OnX bar...

My personal experience with light force is that my 4" BD Fuegos were a way better light than the LF 7" HID. There are so many changes in the last few years with reflectors and beam technology that you will be amazed.

I actually hate pencil beams, they are a necessary evil to traveling fast but in general the little points of light off in the distance aren't easy to use and really don't help that much because the light is so focused. Distance isn't everything light quality and beam spread at a distance is.

 

[keelue]

I did two 10" rigid light bars, mounted em to the bumper just cause the space was there. Been thinking about having some mounts fabbed up and putting them in the grill though. Light output is just awesome, can't even tell a difference when i turn on the regular headlamps.

 

[ktmoutfront]

Post up pictures of the truck. It is mandatory for this board.

 

[6872xtc]

I have a set of the "little" Rigid Dually D2's and the light they throw out of the small lense is quite surprising. I have not seen their light bars in action though. I like the fact that Rigid shows all of the specs of each light, even down to the lumens at "X" amount of meters from the source. They even give the specs for vibration, corrosion, submersion, effficency of the circuitry as well as patent #'s. They tell you what amps at voltage, which I verified to be correct. Quality stuff.

 

[Avery4jc]

Post up pictures of the truck. It is mandatory for this board.

You just want to see him qualify this statement...

Speeds, I would guess up to at least 100 mph, maybe 120 mph tops.

 

[K20Chevrolet]

My personal experience with light force is that my 4" BD Fuegos were a way better light than the LF 7" HID. There are so many changes in the last few years with reflectors and beam technology that you will be amazed.

I actually hate pencil beams, they are a necessary evil to traveling fast but in general the little points of light off in the distance aren't easy to use and really don't help that much because the light is so focused. Distance isn't everything light quality and beam spread at a distance is.

I personally don´t like the light force lights because they are too focused for me. I love the way the hella 4000 HID euros spread, awesome lights, so far the best output I have seen. The pnecils are huge in distance, but you are right, the bright spot is very focused and doesn´t do much besides just that one spot. So as long as the track is straight (raod through the woods for example<) the pencils are great, in the open desert/field, they might not be of so much use.

Do you have your OnX bar mounted above the windshield? what optics are you running? the spot?

I did two 10" rigid light bars, mounted em to the bumper just cause the space was there. Been thinking about having some mounts fabbed up and putting them in the grill though. Light output is just awesome, can't even tell a difference when i turn on the regular headlamps.

pretty cool! My bumper kind of looks like yours (the new one) . I was thiunking about frenching in a 3 cell bar over the winch fairlead ot mount it above, the two cornering lights on the bumper wings. Just some random ideas going through my head now. I would still hat to completely get rid of the hellas as I really like them.

Post up pictures of the truck. It is mandatory for this board.

If you look into my profile you can see a picture of the truck. BUT that is without the new suspension in it and without the new bumper on it. With the suspension on it in this pic I wouldn´t want to go that fast.
As for the new setup (pictures will have to wait, not with the truck right now): front is a 4 link with panahrd bar, 16" of travel, 2.5" King coil overs, 2.5" king hydraulic bumps, maybe 3" bypasses added in the future. The rear will be (still in the works) long travel 64" deaver leaf packs with a cantilever shock and air assist setup, 3" or 4" bypass shocks, 2.5" king hydraulic bumps, around 18 to 20" of travel, oh and limit straps all around.

all of that is still in the works, pics will follow....