yunit
1/2 ton status
let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
NOW MOTHA FUDGER!!! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
NOW MOTHA FUDGER!!! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
let's see those Doubler crossmember's and belly skid plates!
- Thread starter yunit
- Start date
OL14BLAZ
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
/forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
SF87K5
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
Steve,
that looks awsome. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
is 4x4 iron still selling those?
Steve,
that looks awsome. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
is 4x4 iron still selling those?
BOWTIE
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
/forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
RustBuket
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
You guys are too much!
You guys are too much!
BILLY RAY
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
here you go
here you go
yunit
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
Cool idea with the solid mount to the adaptor and bushing mounts to the frame rail. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Cool idea with the solid mount to the adaptor and bushing mounts to the frame rail. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
Only problem with the outboard bushings is that you need to have really stiff motor mounts to keep stress off the rest of the drive line. Mounting the bushing out there reduces the amount of deflection a given amount of torque will create, effectively stiffening the bushings ALOT. If your motor mounts are very much shy of rigid, then the adapters are going to be used to control the torque, and they are not meant for that.
Personally, I would recommend against mounting the bushings outboard, but that's just my opinion, and quite a few people do make mounts like that and get away with it. My plans for a cross member(s) to hold my doubler include solid mounting to the adapter, but still using a bushing (or bushings) near the center. Basically the factory config, but not *under* the adapter, so that it does not push the cross member even lower to reduce clearance.
FWIW, I was even planning to hang my doubler from a top mounted cross member initially. Basically, making a bracket so that the bushings are on top, but still in compression rather than hanging from them…
Only problem with the outboard bushings is that you need to have really stiff motor mounts to keep stress off the rest of the drive line. Mounting the bushing out there reduces the amount of deflection a given amount of torque will create, effectively stiffening the bushings ALOT. If your motor mounts are very much shy of rigid, then the adapters are going to be used to control the torque, and they are not meant for that.
Personally, I would recommend against mounting the bushings outboard, but that's just my opinion, and quite a few people do make mounts like that and get away with it. My plans for a cross member(s) to hold my doubler include solid mounting to the adapter, but still using a bushing (or bushings) near the center. Basically the factory config, but not *under* the adapter, so that it does not push the cross member even lower to reduce clearance.
FWIW, I was even planning to hang my doubler from a top mounted cross member initially. Basically, making a bracket so that the bushings are on top, but still in compression rather than hanging from them…
BILLY RAY
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
Thanks for the info. but I guess I'am just damm lucky because I don't think there are too many other people that beat the hell out of the drive train like I do. I sure don't have a problem with the skinny pedel and if i can't make it I have been know to try and launch up something. So thanks for the opion and glad I have been lucky as to date. 6 axles, 3 sets of hubs, 3drive shafts, 4 u-joints, 1 frame at box, 1 transmision output shaft I think I have said enough. Sorry about the post hijack!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Thanks for the info. but I guess I'am just damm lucky because I don't think there are too many other people that beat the hell out of the drive train like I do. I sure don't have a problem with the skinny pedel and if i can't make it I have been know to try and launch up something. So thanks for the opion and glad I have been lucky as to date. 6 axles, 3 sets of hubs, 3drive shafts, 4 u-joints, 1 frame at box, 1 transmision output shaft I think I have said enough. Sorry about the post hijack!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
I don't think it's a hijack, he asked about cross members and such, and this is directly related to potential designs, so I hope this is not out of line... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Like I said, that is just my opinion and observation. Many people seem to be breaking transmissions cases and adapters with a factory bushing setup in the center. The stated cause has frequently been that there was a stiff (poly) bushing in the back with worn and/or rubber engine mounts. Frequently the fix is listed as engine mounts at least as stiff as (or stiffer than) the trans mounts. And this is just an extension of that observation. My post was nothing personal against your design, just something I thought might be worth mentioning for discussion. I have also seen several people other than you run those setups successfully. <shrug> Not sure of the reasons for different results.
This is just something that has been on my mind lately since I am installing a doubler myself. I look forward to further discussion on this because it will directly affect my design...
I don't think it's a hijack, he asked about cross members and such, and this is directly related to potential designs, so I hope this is not out of line... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Like I said, that is just my opinion and observation. Many people seem to be breaking transmissions cases and adapters with a factory bushing setup in the center. The stated cause has frequently been that there was a stiff (poly) bushing in the back with worn and/or rubber engine mounts. Frequently the fix is listed as engine mounts at least as stiff as (or stiffer than) the trans mounts. And this is just an extension of that observation. My post was nothing personal against your design, just something I thought might be worth mentioning for discussion. I have also seen several people other than you run those setups successfully. <shrug> Not sure of the reasons for different results.
This is just something that has been on my mind lately since I am installing a doubler myself. I look forward to further discussion on this because it will directly affect my design...
BILLY RAY
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
Not taken personal. The way it is set up is solid mount at the case but at the frame it uses a spring bushing to allow up,down,side and all around movement then the brackets are solid mounted to the frame. If the set up will help you at all I can put it on the lift and take better pics.
/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
as for the hijack part I wanted to make sure I was not doing so.
Not taken personal. The way it is set up is solid mount at the case but at the frame it uses a spring bushing to allow up,down,side and all around movement then the brackets are solid mounted to the frame. If the set up will help you at all I can put it on the lift and take better pics.
/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
as for the hijack part I wanted to make sure I was not doing so.
ducttape114
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
not trying to change the subject, but what the story with your exaust?
not trying to change the subject, but what the story with your exaust?
BILLY RAY
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
What do you mean story with my exh. the pass. side is routed over the crossmember if that is what you mean.
What do you mean story with my exh. the pass. side is routed over the crossmember if that is what you mean.
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
I thought about this subject when I mounted mine, but opted to mount the bushings outward to get more clearance. My adaptor is steel so Im not real worried about it breaking. I installed new motor mounts during the swap too.
Valid points Baddog - I think FROD made a few trucks with the outboard bushings.
I am with Billy on this one - I wheel the pee out of mine with Hammer down! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
I'll post pics real soon.
I thought about this subject when I mounted mine, but opted to mount the bushings outward to get more clearance. My adaptor is steel so Im not real worried about it breaking. I installed new motor mounts during the swap too.
Valid points Baddog - I think FROD made a few trucks with the outboard bushings.
I am with Billy on this one - I wheel the pee out of mine with Hammer down! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
I'll post pics real soon.
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
[ QUOTE ]
If the set up will help you at all I can put it on the lift and take better pics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the offer, but those pics are fine. It’s easy to see how they work.
I'm just hoping there will be some more techy discussion on the merits of one approach to the other. I posted my thought processes above, and they still seem valid. You and Mudzer have your experiences representing a counter point based on real world experiences. I wish I could understand why some people break trans cases and adapters due to stiff tranny mounts with loose engine mounts, and yet some people can run setups like yours (should be *far* stiffer at the back) with stock rubber engine mounts. I think even polly would still leave the front softer (less resistance to torque) than the rear, and ALL the rear torque will need to be transferred through trans and adapter so that it is limited/controlled by the rear mount. Oh well, maybe this will need to be filled under the, “Well, sometimes it just works” category…
Currently, my plans remain the same. Rigid mount the cross member (supporting or suspending is still up in the air) to the frame rails, and then provide a mount in the center so that the adapter(s) can rock with engine torque as needed without stressing the drive train. I’ll let the engine mounts control torque on their own… Maybe a "rest" (like a bump stop) at the end of the 205 so that on hard hits/drops the end of the 205 is supported rather than using it's inertia applied through the case as a lever?
[ QUOTE ]
If the set up will help you at all I can put it on the lift and take better pics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the offer, but those pics are fine. It’s easy to see how they work.
I'm just hoping there will be some more techy discussion on the merits of one approach to the other. I posted my thought processes above, and they still seem valid. You and Mudzer have your experiences representing a counter point based on real world experiences. I wish I could understand why some people break trans cases and adapters due to stiff tranny mounts with loose engine mounts, and yet some people can run setups like yours (should be *far* stiffer at the back) with stock rubber engine mounts. I think even polly would still leave the front softer (less resistance to torque) than the rear, and ALL the rear torque will need to be transferred through trans and adapter so that it is limited/controlled by the rear mount. Oh well, maybe this will need to be filled under the, “Well, sometimes it just works” category…
Currently, my plans remain the same. Rigid mount the cross member (supporting or suspending is still up in the air) to the frame rails, and then provide a mount in the center so that the adapter(s) can rock with engine torque as needed without stressing the drive train. I’ll let the engine mounts control torque on their own… Maybe a "rest" (like a bump stop) at the end of the 205 so that on hard hits/drops the end of the 205 is supported rather than using it's inertia applied through the case as a lever?
yunit
1/2 ton status
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
I think that frame flex can come into play with the whole broken adapter issue. There is a guy in NY state that was actually on the cover of Four Wheeler a couple of years back and he made this center mount for the rad support because of all the frame flex. Here is a shot below of how much his frame twists up; he has the center rad support mount in this picture.
(this picture is to just show how much the frame actually can twist up)
The mounts will only compress so much before they put stress on the adapter and I bet the adapter will break before the engine block will. I think with the doubler setup the stress will be distribued a little better since there are more adapter mounting points involved.
I probably just made no sense to anyone but myself. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
I think that frame flex can come into play with the whole broken adapter issue. There is a guy in NY state that was actually on the cover of Four Wheeler a couple of years back and he made this center mount for the rad support because of all the frame flex. Here is a shot below of how much his frame twists up; he has the center rad support mount in this picture.
(this picture is to just show how much the frame actually can twist up)
The mounts will only compress so much before they put stress on the adapter and I bet the adapter will break before the engine block will. I think with the doubler setup the stress will be distribued a little better since there are more adapter mounting points involved.
I probably just made no sense to anyone but myself. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Re: let\'s see those Doubler crossmember\'s and belly skid plates!
Yeah, I've seen that truck before, and the Mogs do the same thing. One other thing to think about, it's often the trans case that fails rather than the adapter, and the doubler won't help that...
Yeah, I've seen that truck before, and the Mogs do the same thing. One other thing to think about, it's often the trans case that fails rather than the adapter, and the doubler won't help that...
