Lets talk fans

[wetoolowdingbangow]

Ok so ive read up a bit about electric fans for my radiator. My mechanical fan is straight up not cutting it anymore. I know my radiator is pretty clean and everything cooling related is relatively new. I know theres a few variables with fans such as single, duals, 6 blade, 9 blade and so on. It hasnt become clear to me if one is necessarily better than another.

I was originally looking for a windstar fan, which is two fans but I recently went wheeling with a guy who was running a tbird fan, which had a high-low switch. He wasnt phased by the humid whether and lack of air flow even on the low setting where I got hot a few times.

Ive looked at some single fans on summit and they push pretty good air (2400cfm) but im wondering if thats enough? Would dual fans be better if one crapped out? I like the idea of buying a new one becuase its peace of mind but the dual set ups are pricey.

I know theres a lot of info out there but im interested in what you guys run in your own rigs.

 

[Big Ray]

was the 3 fan guy running a large engine or a diesel...?


quite a few folks are quite happy with the Windstar setup...As soon as the weather cools a bit I'm going "shopping" for one myself.

How's the inside of your radiator? Coolant level? Is your thermostat sticking?


make sure everything else is up to snuff and then decide if you need a 3rd fan.

 

[GWeakland620]

I run a dual fan set up from an LS1 Camaro. Haven't had any issues yet.

 

[colbystephens]

I just picked up a Windstar Fan last night at the Pick-N-Pull to add to my truck later this week. If you haven't read Lunatic's thread, you should because it's a very complete thread about all things cooling-fan related - including electrics.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267400&highlight=windstar+fan

As to your question: A 2 speed fan, and a double-fan are essentially the same thing. The idea is that you have a low-speed option that will continue to pull air through your A/C condenser without over-cooling your engine. Therefore, when your A/C is on, it'll always be pulling the minimum necessary amount of air make your A/C work, but will be ready to kick on high (or double fan) when your engine needs cooling. Dual fans do have an advantage that you can have a backup, but that's not the primary purpose for their design. A fan is unlikely to crap out - it's more reliable than a mechanical clutch-style one, provided that you do the electrical wiring correctly.

FYI: to remove a Windstar fan requires the removal of 2 screws with ⅜" bolt heads, plus wiggling some other crap out of the way. Super easy and cheap.

 

[Bowtie85]

I have windstars on my 83. Had them hooked to a Hayden control unit. I cooked 2 of the controllers, gave up and ran them off a switch.

I did buy a painless Wiring 165 off/170 on(something close to that) thread in temp sensor. But have never bothered putting it in.

 

[GWeakland620]

Mine are also just ran on a switch. I have a thread in t-static switch, but have yet to install that.

 

[Russell]

There is no such thing as an electric fan that will out-perform a mechanical fan. I suspect your fan clutch might not be working very well if it isn't keeping your truck cool.

Electric fans are nice, but don't move nearly the same volume as a mechanical system.

 

[skunked]

Don't over think it, run the windstars and be done with it if you want to run e-fans. They fit right, perform well, cheap & plentiful.

Also, I tend agree with Russell that your current system has some other issues. Not knowing what has/has not been replaced it's hard to pin point some underlying problems. You may also want to think about a pusher fan as a secondary fan over the mechanical.

 

[wetoolowdingbangow]

was the 3 fan guy running a large engine or a diesel...?


quite a few folks are quite happy with the Windstar setup...As soon as the weather cools a bit I'm going "shopping" for one myself.

How's the inside of your radiator? Coolant level? Is your thermostat sticking?


make sure everything else is up to snuff and then decide if you need a 3rd fan.

Yeah everything is up to par. New windstars are only $80...

I just picked up a Windstar Fan last night at the Pick-N-Pull to add to my truck later this week. If you haven't read Lunatic's thread, you should because it's a very complete thread about all things cooling-fan related - including electrics.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267400&highlight=windstar+fan

As to your question: A 2 speed fan, and a double-fan are essentially the same thing. The idea is that you have a low-speed option that will continue to pull air through your A/C condenser without over-cooling your engine. Therefore, when your A/C is on, it'll always be pulling the minimum necessary amount of air make your A/C work, but will be ready to kick on high (or double fan) when your engine needs cooling. Dual fans do have an advantage that you can have a backup, but that's not the primary purpose for their design. A fan is unlikely to crap out - it's more reliable than a mechanical clutch-style one, provided that you do the electrical wiring correctly.

FYI: to remove a Windstar fan requires the removal of 2 screws with ⅜" bolt heads, plus wiggling some other crap out of the way. Super easy and cheap.

Cool good to know. I was just checking your thread. I think the windstars are the way to go. I plan on junking the whole AC system which will help my cooling.

I have windstars on my 83. Had them hooked to a Hayden control unit. I cooked 2 of the controllers, gave up and ran them off a switch.

I did buy a painless Wiring 165 off/170 on(something close to that) thread in temp sensor. But have never bothered putting it in.

Interesting. Im wondering if the switch or controller is better. I would hate to forget to turn the switch on...or maybe theres something that is dummy proof?

There is no such thing as an electric fan that will out-perform a mechanical fan. I suspect your fan clutch might not be working very well if it isn't keeping your truck cool.

Electric fans are nice, but don't move nearly the same volume as a mechanical system.

I highly doubt that. Im sure theres a fan out there that would out do a mechanical fan but its probably also a $500 fan. I am also sure that the mechanical fan does a hell of a job....at 3000 rpm and im just not sitting there.

I know theres a lot of mechanical fan folks but im just not seeing people over heat with electric fans. Hell even K85 was having the same heat problems as me at some points on the rubicon. I think he runs a BB fan but it got hot a few times just the same.

Don't over think it, run the windstars and be done with it if you want to run e-fans. They fit right, perform well, cheap & plentiful.

Also, I tend agree with Russell that your current system has some other issues. Not knowing what has/has not been replaced it's hard to pin point some underlying problems. You may also want to think about a pusher fan as a secondary fan over the mechanical.

Ok well if your keeping the BB cool then im good with it. I think they are $40 at pick n pull but im going to buy a new one since theyre cheap. Fit is also important and it seems pretty spot on.

Sure the fan i have now could have an issue but im more inclined to get rid of it instead of playing guess whats wrong with me. The motor side of cooling is all brand new and seems to be working fine. The mechanical doesnt have a problem keeping me cool at speed but when youre down on a gully doing steep climbs and crawling, theres no airflow to help you and your rpm isnt high enough to be in the sweet spot of the fan.

 

[skunked]

Ok well if your keeping the BB cool then im good with it. I think they are $40 at pick n pull but im going to buy a new one since theyre cheap. Fit is also important and it seems pretty spot on.

Sure the fan i have now could have an issue but im more inclined to get rid of it instead of playing guess whats wrong with me. The motor side of cooling is all brand new and seems to be working fine. The mechanical doesnt have a problem keeping me cool at speed but when youre down on a gully doing steep climbs and crawling, theres no airflow to help you and your rpm isnt high enough to be in the sweet spot of the fan.

efans are $50 at the Pick and Pull

the BBC stays cool with one fan most of the time, I switch the second on as needed.

Run a thermal switch with overrides for water crossing. I just have two toggle switches with dummy lights right now but that's temporary.

 

[wetoolowdingbangow]

efans are $50 at the Pick and Pull

the BBC stays cool with one fan most of the time, I switch the second on as needed.

Run a thermal switch with overrides for water crossing. I just have two toggle switches with dummy lights right now but that's temporary.

Yeah i found new windstars for $80 on rockauto.

Interesting ill look into that. I just dont want to forget to turn it on/ leave it on.

 

[bp71k5]

A fans performance is determined by the size/design of the blades and how fast it spins. It doesn't matter if it's powered by electricity or gasoline.

I've never seen an automotive electric fan with blades larger than pretty stock mechanical fans. That tells me a mechanical have a good shot at pulling more air at the same RPM.

The mechanical fan clutch is what determines how fast it spins and at what RPM the clutch engages. Don't all of them fully engage at idle? That would mean it's spinning fastest at idle. When the motor is above idle, it assumes the truck is moving and pushing air through the radiator and no longer needs a fan to do it.

Electric fans tend to do better when space is tight or you need to control them by something other than engine speed such as when the AC is turned on. You can also squeeze two electric fans in front of a radiator which increases potential CFM.

I've also seen more than one person forget to turn on electric fans. (I was one of them). The overheated engine ruined my radiator and made a big mess. It's now on a controller with temp sensor which has never forgotten to turn itself on when needed.

 

[wetoolowdingbangow]

A fans performance is determined by the size/design of the blades and how fast it spins. It doesn't matter if it's powered by electricity or gasoline.

I've never seen an automotive electric fan with blades larger than pretty stock mechanical fans. That tells me a mechanical have a good shot at pulling more air at the same RPM.

The mechanical fan clutch is what determines how fast it spins and at what RPM the clutch engages. Don't all of them fully engage at idle? That would mean it's spinning fastest at idle. When the motor is above idle, it assumes the truck is moving and pushing air through the radiator and no longer needs a fan to do it.

Electric fans tend to do better when space is tight or you need to control them by something other than engine speed such as when the AC is turned on. You can also squeeze two electric fans in front of a radiator which increases potential CFM.

I've also seen more than one person forget to turn on electric fans. (I was one of them). The overheated engine ruined my radiator and made a big mess. It's now on a controller with temp sensor which has never forgotten to turn itself on when needed.

Good points. I was under the impression the fan was proportioned to the engine speed. I guess there would be no clutch then. Seems like the controller is the way to go if you can find one thats proven.

 

[dyeager535]

I highly doubt that. Im sure theres a fan out there that would out do a mechanical fan but its probably also a $500 fan. I am also sure that the mechanical fan does a hell of a job....at 3000 rpm and im just not sitting there.

The biggest alternator any of us are likely to run is 200A. What does a typical V8 make around idle? I'd say 50HP would be low, but lets say 50HP. 50HP at 12V from the calculator I used, is 4063A. Seems there is no way an electric can move more air, all else being equal.

Fan design (pitch, number of blades, RPM) is going to have a lot to do with it, but packaging and engine orientation were the two motivating factors for the move to electric fans, not how much air they can pull.

The problem with the argument for or against electric fans really comes down to the fact that there are no numbers for the factory fans (edit for clarity, I mean factory mechanical fans). Electric fans are superior when it comes to ability to control them (water crossings, AC, etc) inferior when it comes to complexity, failure modes, and likely ability to move air.

Not really arguing against the electrics, I don't recall anyone saying the Windstars don't do the job, but I also recall on this site someone saying they got worse cooling with electrics when they were really pulling a load.

I would suggest sticking with what is known to work (so far that seems to be the Windstars, and in my case the LT1 fans) if you are intent on going electric. I'm not confident the 25-5000CFM aftermarket fans are enough for a V8 being lugged up steep slopes in 90* weather.

Huh...apparently the Windstars are under 5000CFM: http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1360479-s-windstar-electric-fans.html#post14200168

I'll also say that if you had any inclination to use them, stay away from the dual speed fans with resistors, or at least do not run them that way. The Ford Focus setups are easy to find, but they make a replacement resistor pack/connector/pigtail setup because they melt.

 

[Bowtie85]

I've only forgot a couple times to flip em on, I've made it a habit of flipping the switch in the truck before I fire it.

Also I pay plenty of attention to my gauges

 

[beags86]

I don't know what your budget is but these guys build some nice pieces, but they are pricey, they use a fan controller on their kits which is nice. I think a kit like this is the way to go if you aren't going the budget route.

http://tcpperformance.com/

 

[wetoolowdingbangow]

The biggest alternator any of us are likely to run is 200A. What does a typical V8 make around idle? I'd say 50HP would be low, but lets say 50HP. 50HP at 12V from the calculator I used, is 4063A. Seems there is no way an electric can move more air, all else being equal.

Fan design (pitch, number of blades, RPM) is going to have a lot to do with it, but packaging and engine orientation were the two motivating factors for the move to electric fans, not how much air they can pull.

The problem with the argument for or against electric fans really comes down to the fact that there are no numbers for the factory fans (edit for clarity, I mean factory mechanical fans). Electric fans are superior when it comes to ability to control them (water crossings, AC, etc) inferior when it comes to complexity, failure modes, and likely ability to move air.

Not really arguing against the electrics, I don't recall anyone saying the Windstars don't do the job, but I also recall on this site someone saying they got worse cooling with electrics when they were really pulling a load.

I would suggest sticking with what is known to work (so far that seems to be the Windstars, and in my case the LT1 fans) if you are intent on going electric. I'm not confident the 25-5000CFM aftermarket fans are enough for a V8 being lugged up steep slopes in 90* weather.

Huh...apparently the Windstars are under 5000CFM: http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1360479-s-windstar-electric-fans.html#post14200168

I'll also say that if you had any inclination to use them, stay away from the dual speed fans with resistors, or at least do not run them that way. The Ford Focus setups are easy to find, but they make a replacement resistor pack/connector/pigtail setup because they melt.

Good stuff here. Thanks for chiming in. I couldnt find a number for the mechanical cfm but im sure 4-5 thousand is enough for my small block. Im still learning about what these fans can do so every bit helps. Ill be sure to stay away from the resistor fans.

I've only forgot a couple times to flip em on, I've made it a habit of flipping the switch in the truck before I fire it.

Also I pay plenty of attention to my gauges

Ok sounds good. I figure its just something you get in a habit of before lift off. I look at my gauges too damn much. Thats why i want to get to a point where i know its going to run where im comfortable so i dont have to look down every few minutes.

 

[Greg72]

One simple bit of logic will probably help a lot too:


Any electric fan setup that doesn't pull a TON of amps when it's running, also isn't moving much cool air.



No free lunch. If you want to save the HP by ditching a mechanical fan, your are going to probably need a bigger alternator to run a serious electric fan setup.

When I was figuring out my radiator setup, I called Ron Davis Racing. They sold me an enormous radiator that I think they call the "Offroad Truck" application. Two big electric fans with a custom shroud.... I forget what the current draw is, but it's something ludicrous like 50A+ when both of them are running at full speed / full load.

They told me that they tested a lot of fans and most couldn't move the advertised CFMs once they were actually installed behind a radiator. They could only get the advertised CFMs spinning in open, unrestricted air.... which basically makes those specs useless for comparison.

A good fan has a strongly angled blade and a strong electric motor to work against that load when it's spinning.... I had a set of Summit Racing "Flex-A-Lite" fans on my old BBC setup and I think they ran on a 10A fuse (or less!)... knowing what I know now, it doesn't even make sense that they would do the job correctly.



-G

 

[ashman]

I ran camaro fans for awhile but they were too small for the surface area of the radiator. They did ok, but I still had occasional heating issues. I switched to windstar fans and never looked back. I love them. For the price and performance I don't see any reason why you'd go with anything else.

I used to run them off a temp probe that was just stuck between the fins of the radiator. I never had any issues with it but I was always worried about how accurate it was. After my LS swap I let the PCM control the fans. I do want to wire in a cut off switch at some point for water crossings though.

 

[GWeakland620]

Since it appears these windstar fans are the shizznit, you guys should look up your local LKQ Salvage yard. I have a bunch in my system for like $25. And all our parts have a 6mo warranty. I am going to pick up a set just to have them.

Edit: If you don't have a local LKQ, I can sell them to you. There would just be a little more $$ for shipping.