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Long travel sand rail. Help and ideas needed. PICS UP post #24

Deuling

Deuling

“I like to make things”
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So me and the boys came up with our Overkill Kustomz thing as a joke kinda. But now we actually have a friend wanting us to build a sand rail. He went and picked up a project a guy had yesterday. Frames done, has the steering box with tie rods steering wheel, and front knuckle/hubs. i think. Now the question i have is it says its set up for a motorcycle or snowmobile engine. We have a 750 cbr motor already but i dont think it will push it. I was thinking pick up a snowmobile that has a running strong high cc engine and has reverse. Dont care about the rest... Thoughts on cooling a snowmobile motor in the summer heat? I think the cyntrifical clutch setup would be much easier than making clutch and shifting linkages for a motorcycle engine. And motorcycles dont really have reverse. Pics to come later. Or if you liked the fb page check it out.:thumb:
 
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Oh yah and im so retartedly stoked about this i was up till 2am thinkin about stuff lol. My boss has a jd2 bender with only a 3/4" die and i think me and the boys will go in on a 1" die for the a-arms, or should we go bigger? I was thinking of running a piece of 1/4" plate along the bottoms of the a-arms turned sideways so that they dont bend.
 
Deuling said:
Oh yah and im so retartedly stoked about this i was up till 2am thinkin about stuff lol. My boss has a jd2 bender with only a 3/4" die and i think me and the boys will go in on a 1" die for the a-arms, or should we go bigger? I was thinking of running a piece of 1/4" plate along the bottoms of the a-arms turned sideways so that they dont bend.
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I think if you put any 1/4" plate on an a-arm for a lightweight small engine sand rail you need to have your head examined dude! :D

Seriously, if you want to brace an a-arm from bending putting a tube across the inside joints and also maybe make an x with some smaller tubing inside of it if you are really worried about it, although that probably isn't necessary if the rails are made out of the correct tubing in the first place. If the thing isn't lightweight its going to defeat the purpose. Look at some quad a-arms and other rails for comparison.

I would go with a motorcycle engine over a snowmobile engine for a sandrail. Clutch should be easy with a cable, and a shift linkage would be fun to use if it's setup right. Shocks are going to be very important.
 
Good point on the x brace. The only thing i dont like is haveing no reverse with a motorcycle where alot of snowmobiles have it now. Also for the a-arms if we use chromoly tubing does that need special welding setups? And the reasoning behind the plate is just because my ex gfs dad had one and we bent the a-arms up from jumping so we just heated and bent them back and welded a small piece of plate vertically and never bent again. His were not chromo though.
 
For NHRA certification chrome moly tubing requires tig welding. You can mig weld chromemoly tubing but it won't be as strong, how much different I don't know. Not sure if there are actually any rules like that for the desert stuff.

Tell your friend if he knows how to drive the sand rail he won't need reverse... ha ha

:sign6:
 
Haha but i want reverse cuz ill be driving it as well. Its just for silver lake. No certification stuff needed. We are going to try different shock and suspension setups as we go. What ive seen people do is use the rear coil overs from a dirt bike in the front which are adjustable and work really well. Then some big ones in the rear.
 
TheBeast_88K5 said:
Reverse is for sissy's....
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Well its not up to me. He is retired and a bigger fellow so hopping out and pushing by himself would probably not be something he wants to do if he ever got a little buried or something on a hill. Im really just throwing ideas out and would like any info or ideas you guys may be able to add.
 
TheBeast_88K5 said:
Reverse is for sissy's....
Click to expand...

Well its not up to me. He is retired and a bigger fellow so hopping out and pushing by himself would probably not be something he wants to do if he ever got a little buried or something on a hill. Im really just throwing ideas out and would like any info or ideas you guys may be able to add.
 
Deuling said:
Im really just throwing ideas out and would like any info or ideas you guys may be able to add.
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Cut a hole in the floor so he can flintstone his @$$ out of there if he gets stuck. :thumb:


BTW, do you realize many of the newer snowmobiles don't actually have a reverse gear? They just run the 2 stroke motor backwards for that. If you can keep it cool it could work, and it would need tuned differently for the warmer weather most likely, but its possible I suppose. I'd rather have the 4 stroke motorcycle engine, maybe a 1000 cc or something.
 
Me and my dad are building a Haybusa powered 1 seater sandrail.

We have ton TONS of research on it.

first

Minibuggy.net


the snowmobile clutch will do fine in warmer weather, just make sure you have cooling vents to direct air to it.

The way to do reverse is a $2000 FnR box its a joke.
People now are using honda trannys mounted with a chain drive off of were the clutch would be. gives you reverse and also gear splitting options based on terrain.
 
I have no idea how the reverse works. I just know my gpas 2000 or so polaris has it. Pull the thing back and it goes in reverse. So i thought it could be incorporated into a buggy design.
 
Most snowmobile reverses are exactly that, at least the ones I have seen, they spin the motor in reverse.

The honda trans is the best option for reverse in my mind.

Now the key to building a rail Adam especially your first one is that fact you might have to experiment a bit. On a rail weight is your enemy. That is how you have to think, everything needs to be thought about how you can make it lighter. EVERYTHING, there is no place at all for 1/4 plate on a rail. Barely any place for 3/16" plate.

I would not do anything but TIG chro moly just cause I have seen failures. Its so much easier to control the heat with TIG and thats what moly needs.

So how many inches of travel we talking here, there is a ton of info out there on how to build rails like these.

I plan on building one in the future but mine will be LONG travel, shooting for 25" front and back on travel and it will be a single seater using a single turbo 700 snowmobile motor, with no reverse!
 
Yah we changed our minds already. I guess there is a motorcycle yard around here. Going to try to find something in the 1000cc range. Idk what travel yet eric. Have to look into everything yet. And dammit i already said forget the plate haha:haha:
 
Deuling said:
Yah we changed our minds already. I guess there is a motorcycle yard around here. Going to try to find something in the 1000cc range. Idk what travel yet eric. Have to look into everything yet. And dammit i already said forget the plate haha:haha:
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No I mean like everything you do. Like a dash bar isn't going to be hit so if your whole cage is .088 wall, that dash bar needs to be .065.

We even drilled holes in brake pedals seat weight was taken into account.

My buddies rail is a 1600cc VW single turbo and it moves, motor isn't too impressive but we cut about 150 lbs out of it after changing a bunch of stuff.

He is lighter by 60 lbs than his buddies built almost the same.

Weight is your enemy and needs to be treated as such
 
Yah i understand. Cool. Now to find a motor. I have no idea when he wants this done by, it will depend on how much he wants to fork over. Whats the best tubing size to run on a-arms? Idk if chromoly is in the picture as we dont have tig capabilities
 
My dad used to build some dune buggies and used VW frames and the motors, FWIW.
 
I think with how much higher you can rev a crotch rocket engine it will be alot faster than the standard vw motor buggy selection. Ive never been really impressed by one.
 
One of my buddies in Ohio could change your opinion on vw buggies... I've seen him do absolutely insane things in a little 2wd buggy that I wouldn't dream of in a 4x4. Plus he knows how to build them plenty fast:thumb:
 
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