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Looks like it's my turn to give tbi swaps a go

Discussion in 'The Injection Section' started by az_762_nato, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I don't notice anything crazy on it, but that layout always seems hard for me to read. I honestly prefer the spreadsheet, but I typically am looking for a specific area that I'm looking for...RPM, MPH, etc., so to me that's easier to see glaring things like knock count, timing, etc.

    Stock senders aren't that pricey anymore, is the tank vent on the sender that year, or is it still part of EVAP?
     
  2. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    So, I've run into a little tuning issue that I'm not sure if its me or the truck. Right now the truck starts and idles beautifully, and part throttle feels perfect. Under normal driving my BLMs are all just a tad low now after this last VE adjustment, previously they were all 125-129. Part throttle INT is right about the same ranges. Fuel pressure tested at the filter spot is 14psi, and warm vacuum at idle is 17in/hg (via gauge on tbody). Timing is 0* with connector unplugged. Engine has 106k miles, and is the original 350 from '73 with a th350 and 203 behind it. Other than the TBI conversion, there are NO other mods. Normal driving around the city is better than the truck has ever felt, as is flat cruising 75 down the highway. When I come to a hill, even with my foot in the throttle it feels like I'm dragging an anchor or a Jeep behind me and I watch the speedometer wind down. No bucking, popping, backfiring, etc; just no power. I also cant seem to get the AE "pump shot" to dial in on it either.
    It feels like I'm driving a 4cyl manual transmission and trying to accelerate from 10mph in 5th gear!
    :what:

    I've tried a handful of different BINs now all essentially had the same outcome.
    This is the BIN I'm running now (referenced earlier) and the log from this evening on the hills.
     

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  3. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    Also, tank pressure is fixed, my vent line to the canister was clogged.
     
  4. bent72

    bent72 Desert Solitaire Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Hey so I missed the tank vent issue. Run different with the cap off?
     
  5. bent72

    bent72 Desert Solitaire Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Whoops, type too slow
     
  6. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    It's definitely one of those weeks!
     
  7. bent72

    bent72 Desert Solitaire Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Yeah wishing i was in the springs to look for that 465/203...
     
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  8. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    I just wish this thing could go up a hill, there is NO way its pulling a trailer with ATVs or a SxS up into the mountains like this!
     
  9. bent72

    bent72 Desert Solitaire Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    we talked about this in the Springs that day, is that CalPak chip (small one) in the computer the correct one for a 350?
     
  10. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    Yep, sure is
     
  11. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I grabbed one of those zips and opened it, but I don't see the TPS as one of the items. I like to see throttle position with load, knock, O2 and timing, but I'm so used to dealing with MAF that any differences in the TBI setup is going to have me off a bit. MAP may be the only indication of load you have, which is fine. But without those outputs, I can't tell whats going on based on throttle position.

    Does TBI use PE as well as AE? AE being the pump shot that gets enrichment started, PE being the secondaries that keep the extra fuel going over the longer term, if comparing to a carb.
     
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  12. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    Tps voltage and throttle position should be on there, they're showing on the dash. TBI does use both ae and pe. I logged my drive to the VA this morning, as soon as I leave I'll upload the log. Finally popped through the intake this morning when I went WOT from a low rpm and speed. I'll be logging the drive home from here as well.
     
  13. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I'm probably just not familiar with that interface. I know EagleMark really liked using that version, perhaps since I cut my teeth on the spreadsheets, it's what I stick with.

    I didn't see any knock counts in there, so it's obviously not pulling timing from that. Make sure it's going rich, staying rich, and timing isn't doing anything wonky while you are on the throttle heavy for long periods. No wideband? If fuel seems right (which is really impossible to know with a narrowband, but you can at least tell if it's staying on the rich side) I'd look into timing. If there isn't enough fuel under load, and timing is aggressive enough, you'll see the knock.
     
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  14. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    Here is the log from my way there, and I'm using a different acquisition file for the log on the drive home to see if it displays anything different
     

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  15. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    Here was the log coming back home. There has to be something simple that I'm overlooking, probably due to coming to this from the Bosch ME2.8 tuning on the car. I'm going to math up the new VE table values based off that last log and log my way to lunch, its ginormous carne asada burrito time
     

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  16. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    You make any progress on this?

    Again, not familiar with that type of data view, so I converted over to excel. I'm curious, is it normal to not see timing with TBI? Around 7:25 you started to get into knock, but I have no idea what sort of knock retard you were seeing in * there. It went and stayed rich through that event, so timing may be a bit too aggressive around that area.

    It also never went open loop under acceleration, but I never saw TPS higher than about 50% throttle, and IIRC, just because it doesn't indicate open loop, it may actually be.

    If you've noticed knock under similar conditions on all runs, and fuel appears right (rich) take a couple of degrees out just before the knock starts, and see if keeping it out of the knock sensor increases power, or at least eliminates the knock. If it does, I might try backing off PE a bit at a time, and see if it's running overly rich at those times. You likely won't need as much enrichment as timing decreases, and if its overly rich to start with, you may be hurting power that way as well.
     
  17. bent72

    bent72 Desert Solitaire Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I talked to him earlier, he thinks he found some fun in the timing that he wanted to test drive on tomorrow
     
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  18. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    So, some stuff that I didnt know, and other people may not also here...
    Depending on what XDF youre using, it can throw off the values for your timing based on the "warm spark bias" table. I couldnt get the truck to run right unless the timing was jacked through the roof. The spark bias is subtracted from your main spark advance, along with a few other values. So if you look at my main advance table, its basically displaying 10* higher than what you get at the engine. There are a few XDFs that have this removed and correctly show the true timing. This thing gave a couple of us headaches because the hardware was all working correctly, installed correctly, etc but it just wouldnt run right without being set to massive amounts of timing (and not knocking either).
    After this, I would definitely recommend anyone new to tuning in general or especially to this system make yourself familiar with the different XDF files before you start making any changes (or doubting your install).
    upload_2016-9-27_18-26-50.png
     
  19. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    The joys of early EFI lol.

    I've had a corrupted .bin throw me for a loop before, so I completely understand. At least you figured something out! Any chance you've been able to run it with "better" timing?
     
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  20. az_762_nato

    az_762_nato Dysfunctional Veteran Premium Member

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    That I have, put about 250 miles on it since. I haven't started working on open loop or WOT yet until the wbo2 for this thing comes, I decided not to pull the lm1 out of the car. So far she runs great down the highway and pulls the hills great.
     
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