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LT1 issues

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Alright gang, it's time for a different sort of problem. I finally joined the SBC club a few weeks ago, and so far it sucks. I have a 1996 LT1in a Buick B-body that intermittently bogs down. Much of the time it runs perfectly, and then it will appear to drop out 2 or even 3 cylinders. This has happened in a variety of situations. Hot, cold idle, cold starting, WOT, warm idle, while aimlessly cruising down the road, etc. When this situation develops, the engine runs rough at low engine speeds, and kinda smooths out at higher engine speeds. Cold starts are sometimes hard, and require throttle input, but are still happening (so far). And other times it fires right off immediately. It doesn't hit a firm power ceiling (like with a plugged fuel filter). And both exhaust banks smell very rich. So I don't think it's running out of fuel. Fuel regulator issues would cause funny running, but the abrupt coming and going of this problem, combined with the mix of well-running and non-running cylinders makes me think I'm dealing with a spark issue. No DTCs are present, though it did briefly have P0125 (Insufficient Coolant Temperature For Closed Loop Fuel Control). This has not recurred yet, and shouldn't affect open-loop operation. It also had P0410 (Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction), but that was in place before the engine got tempestuous.


This engine is famous for having distributor issues. The distributor mounts at the front of the camshaft, low to the ground and behind the water pump. A crummy spot for a water-sensitive item. :doah: It's the rainy season, so the underbody is getting wet routinely. I never figured I'd own another vehicle with a distributor, especially in a non-project DD car. I love them almost as little as I love carburetors.


The car has 130,000 miles, and I don't know how old plugs/wires/cap/rotor are. So I should look at easy stuff first (even though I don't think a trashed plug should suddenly change its behavior every few minutes). I haven't been stranded yet, but I'm only a few days into this problem. Looking at the long-term picture, a replacement AC Delco Optispark unit will probably outlast the car. But it's still not water-resistant. This is a 1996 model, so it already has GM's upgraded air venting system installed. It also should already have a crankshaft position sensor according to the interwebz (haven't checked yet).

A few years ago there were coil-on-plug conversion kits for LT1 engines on the market. Today it seems to be no longer loved and supported by the market (insert dumb diesel joke here :rolleyes:). I've found a few expensive aftermarket ignition timing boxes that will either decode the optispark output or use an added crank position sensor to feed an LS1 PCM.

But the more I think about it, the more I wonder why an expensive box is required. Isn't this a problem that dozens of other GM engines have already solved? If I already have a crank position sensor, isn't that the same signal that an LS1 PCM is expecting to decode? Is a camshaft position sensor needed? I know my S-series cars run fine without such. It seems like my worst-case scenario should be buying a different style of CPS, not buying an $800 signal decoder.

Or am I crazy? :dunno:

:popcorn:
 
Side note...if you're sitting at a stop sign with the idle artificially raised to avoid stalling, and you raise idle enough to start slipping the rear wheels, the ABS assumes the stopped front wheels are skidding and releases the front brakes. :eek1: :rolleyes: I'm not sure how to do a proper burnout in this car. :1zhelp:
 
From ls1tech.com


engineermike , 06-02-2006 08:42 PM
FYI I just installed an MSD cap and rotor on my stock opti. Definitely a good upgrade as it fixes the 2 main problems of the opti. It has a brass screw that holds the rotor together instead of the stock cheesy plastic rivets. Also, it adds a 5th bolt. The stock one only has 4 bolts and that allows the case to warp and let moisture in.
 
Side note...if you're sitting at a stop sign with the idle artificially raised to avoid stalling, and you raise idle enough to start slipping the rear wheels, the ABS assumes the stopped front wheels are skidding and releases the front brakes. :eek1: :rolleyes: I'm not sure how to do a proper burnout in this car. :1zhelp:
Could be opti spark. Kinda sounds like loose wiring or connection though

For what it’s worth, my LT1 doesn’t do the weird brake release issue either. So proper burnouts are an occurrence...
 
From ls1tech.com


engineermike , 06-02-2006 08:42 PM
FYI I just installed an MSD cap and rotor on my stock opti. Definitely a good upgrade as it fixes the 2 main problems of the opti. It has a brass screw that holds the rotor together instead of the stock cheesy plastic rivets. Also, it adds a 5th bolt. The stock one only has 4 bolts and that allows the case to warp and let moisture in.

Both here and on other forums I've found warnings against buying MSD Optispark parts. I have no personal experience with any sort of Optispark, so this is all new to me. :dunno:

A lot of people use to mod those LT1's. With the readily available LS1's around for cheap, not many do anymore, but it was common knowledge that the MSD optispark stuff was failure prone.

Martin

MSD's LT1 parts are notorious for not working.

Martin

https://ck5.com/forums/threads/in-need-of-an-lt1-guru-new-style-1996.300034/#post-3155063
 
Could be opti spark. Kinda sounds like loose wiring or connection though

For what it’s worth, my LT1 doesn’t do the weird brake release issue either. So proper burnouts are an occurrence...

I'll check connections, but what connector would drop out several (but not all) cylinders? I could see losing all ignition, or having one loose plug wire, or a randomly changing number of loose plug wires. But it consistently goes back and forth between wonderful smoothness and a choppy sputtering.

Also, my LT1 is in Buick grandpa trim. Not intended for burnouts like most LT1 cars were. You have a Camaro, no?
 
I'll check connections, but what connector would drop out several (but not all) cylinders? I could see losing all ignition, or having one loose plug wire, or a randomly changing number of loose plug wires. But it consistently goes back and forth between wonderful smoothness and a choppy sputtering.

Also, my LT1 is in Buick grandpa trim. Not intended for burnouts like most LT1 cars were. You have a Camaro, no?
Check the injector wiring et al
Yes mine is the non grandpa trim package
 
Check the injector wiring et al
Yes mine is the non grandpa trim package

I finally opened the hood today. Checked the injector connections and didn't see anything suspicious. Changed the driver side plugs. They're old, sooty, and discolored, but they're evenly matched. And they're factory-style double platinums. The wires look old.

20191006_172001.jpg

20191006_172014.jpg

Wires and the rest of the plugs should be here Wednesday. Yes, it's slow shipping, but I have other cars to work on this week anyways.
 
I read of people changing just cap and rotor (like a normal dist), but it looks like it's almost the same amount of work to change the whole unit?
 
Heard they suck to service, never had one apart

Plugs look used, but also rich and some oil

Check grounds, check them again. These systems are super finicky about that
 
Heard they suck to service, never had one apart

Plugs look used, but also rich and some oil

Check grounds, check them again. These systems are super finicky about that

I haven't taken one apart either. It doesn't look terrible. It's just a whole lot worse than it needs to be, thanks to the placement. It should be a 5-minute affair to swap a rotor & cap, not a 5-hour affair.

Yes, there is oil on the plugs. But I didn't expect all the plugs to match. The engine runs beautifully when it's in a good mood, so I don't think plugs are my primary problem. I had thought that a few were repeatedly dropping out and would show carbon deposits. Instead I found carbon on all 4 of them. They're "AC" plugs, using old font. So perhaps they're original? :dunno:

I'll come back in a few days and check the other 4.
 
I do think, given that I already have a 4-slot reluctor ring and a crankshaft position sensor, that it should be easy & cheap to fit a waste-spark DIS system onto this engine. I know there are $1200 conversion kits that claim to be easy to install. But I'm probably too busy to make my own at this point. Sigh... :rolleyes:
 
I haven't taken one apart either. It doesn't look terrible. It's just a whole lot worse than it needs to be, thanks to the placement. It should be a 5-minute affair to swap a rotor & cap, not a 5-hour affair.

Yes, there is oil on the plugs. But I didn't expect all the plugs to match. The engine runs beautifully when it's in a good mood, so I don't think plugs are my primary problem. I had thought that a few were repeatedly dropping out and would show carbon deposits. Instead I found carbon on all 4 of them. They're "AC" plugs, using old font. So perhaps they're original? :dunno:

I'll come back in a few days and check the other 4.
Maybe the originals, if not likely changed when the miles started coming up on the original owner, but 10 years ago to the rest of us


Is the weird engine flutter you are feeling perhaps an over fuel condition and it's blubbering? Was contemplating what you had said about the regulator also. But I believe you are on the right path
 
I will confess to thinking about buying one of these this week:

91628907_L_2cf4a7a3-8953-4b98-b159-111b5362bf8a.jpg


But I'm probably too busy for that type of conversion, too. :rolleyes:
 
Is the weird engine flutter you are feeling perhaps an over fuel condition and it's blubbering? Was contemplating what you had said about the regulator also. But I believe you are on the right path

Perhaps, but it abruptly comes and goes. There is no variation, it's on and off like a switch. I also don't notice the PCM adjusting the fuel rate gradually like I'd expect in such a condition. I'd expect it to be chasing its tail trying to get the mixture adjusted. It smells heavily of fuel when parked, and it's more driveable at high engine speed.
 

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